I can't bet/fold for the life of me...AA

lautzutao · #1 10-05-2005, 02:31 PM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP2 calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero ???

Bet/Fold is just a foreign concept to me, and makes me sick just thinking about it. Is this one of those circumstances? Both these guys are laggalicious and are more than capable of betting their draws. I wouldn't put it by them to have checked the flush to me either.

Question is, if I get C/R do I fold it? I always see posts saying b/f b/f b/f...when is it the correct time to do it? Is the pot at the point where I have to call a C/R? Does anyone check this through?

#2 10-05-2005, 02:36 PM

That river card is too likely to have given someone a flush (and they're scared to bet it on a double-paired board), or a full house. On a scary board like this, it's unlikely someone will check-raise. They probably know this will be checked through. I'd still check - I feel like betting here is throwing away a BB in theses situations. You can either lose 1 more BB (or more if you call a raise), or win 2 more BBs here. I just don't think it's worth it on this board.

This is an easy fold if you're check-raised.

Fantam · #3 10-05-2005, 02:37 PM

I think bet/fold is the correct line.

I have been in this position and called the check/raise to be shown the flush on more than one occasion.

If you cant fold to a raise, then I suppose you should just check behind, but I feel that bet/fold is probably the correct play.

jrz1972 · #4 10-05-2005, 02:42 PM

You bet/fold when two conditions are met:

1. Villain usually has a weak made hand that he'll pay you off with.

2. If villain raises, he will have a strong hand that definitely has you beat.

This particular situation meets both conditions. I'm not so much worried about a flush as I am worried about one of two possible boats (three possible boats actually, but JJ is very unlikely).

If I bet, most of the time or both villains will have a J or some lower pocket pair and pay me off. On the other hand, I am not getting check-raised by anything I can beat, so I can safely toss my hand if that occurs. Hence bet-fold.

AngelicPenguin · #5 10-05-2005, 02:44 PM

If you think they are capable of raising you on a bluff, then I'd just check here. If not, bet/fold is probably best.

VoraciousReader · #6 10-05-2005, 02:46 PM

n/m

lautzutao · #7 10-05-2005, 02:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you think they are capable of raising you on a bluff, then I'd just check here. If not, bet/fold is probably best.

[/ QUOTE ]

To be honest, I would have taken a bet into me as to mean a bluff against these guys and would call it.

AngelicPenguin · #8 10-05-2005, 02:57 PM

That makes sense. Calling one bet here would be fine. I just don't want to bet against a habitual bluffer then have to pay off a raise.

lautzutao · #9 10-05-2005, 02:58 PM

Just to try to drive the point home, is this another bet/fold situation?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls, MP calls.

River: (10 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero ??

POKhER · #10 10-05-2005, 03:03 PM

Think this is one mate,

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac Ah (two pair, aces and nines).
MP3 has 3d 7d (flush, king high).
Outcome: MP3 wins 9.75 BB. 

But i just didn't want to fold.