Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Limit Texas Hold'em > Medium Stakes Hold'em

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:15 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

It would be a mistake for the Villain to raise the turn AQ/KQ and bet the river again. This isn't the point that wheelz is making though.

Who is turn-raising with AQ/KQ and also betting the river? I am assuming it is not the line that many 2plus2er's are taking. The player in this hand is solid. How many solid players are taking the turn-raise, river-bet line? I don't think many are. I don't think that you are folding out better hands and I don't think the value bet is very good.
Keep in mind that that the villian probably views the hero as a decent player.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:06 PM
msk msk is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Edison
Posts: 49
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

Jim,

I do not like the river fold.

Here is why. Once you bet on the turn, knowing that you will be raised by AK, JJ, and AA/KK/QQ; and might be raised by AQ or KQ, then you need to be prepared to call the river for one more bet. Looking at it another way: He raises the turn with AQ, or AQh or AJh (or semibluff with AJo), and then you call and check the river. Why would he not continue with a bet? They always will in my experience. Laying it down is wrong on the river, even with the terrible 5.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:59 PM
TakeMeToTheRiver TakeMeToTheRiver is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 7
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

The turn and the river both look bad. But can you really say that you are not ahead more than 10% of the time? Maybe...

but if you thought villain was looking to boat up on the river, you should have probably folded to the raise on the turn. I think you thought that after the fact to justify your fold.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:50 PM
flawless_victory flawless_victory is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 144
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

[ QUOTE ]
Who is turn-raising with AQ/KQ and also betting the river? I am assuming it is not the line that many 2plus2er's are taking.

[/ QUOTE ]
wow, you really really assumed wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-22-2005, 07:46 PM
ActionBob ActionBob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 84
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that many people will be betting this river with KQ or AQ after they raised the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure they will, its called a value bet.

-ActionBob
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-22-2005, 10:59 PM
SA125 SA125 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 171
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

Your AQ hand, where you folded TP to a turn c/r, seemed like you were beat rather than outplayed. But folding this river for 1 bet seems like your taking this great laydown stuff to an extreme.

I go back to what Ed Miller wrote about the effect and severity of your mistakes. I think calling this river is at best a small one in the long run and I'd make it every time.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-22-2005, 11:11 PM
Joe Tall Joe Tall is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Worcester, MA
Posts: 4,238
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

You need to call this river, you'll find KQ/AQ enough to make it profitable at nearly 10:1.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-23-2005, 12:20 AM
me454555 me454555 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 566
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

This line seems perfect for KQ as well as AQ, this is an EASY river call given the size of the pot. I also like going for a c/r on the flop b/c you've got a powerful hand and you can trap both players for 2 bets
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-23-2005, 05:48 AM
Pog0 Pog0 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 27
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who is turn-raising with AQ/KQ and also betting the river? I am assuming it is not the line that many 2plus2er's are taking.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, you really really assumed wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

KQ and AQ are raising either the flop or the turn almost every time. The way the hand played out, a reasonable villain is value betting this river with either of these hands every time.

I would probably slow down and just call down after the turn raise (unless I fill up) because AK is a very distinct possibility.

However, due to AQ and KQ possibilities, folding this river can't be correct here. If the river didn't counterfeit your two pair vs AA and KK, a river check/raise/fold might even be better.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-23-2005, 08:51 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: QTs in the BB. Ugly River.

If you put yourself in the villians situation. When he raises a decent player on the turn and gets called; does he really believe that the river is a value bet. IMO he will rarely get better hands to fold, and he isn't beating much when he is called on the river.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.