playing a set when it's obvious you have a set

[theBruiser500]

5/10 NLHE 1k stacks, UTG raises to 30 someone calls, i call in LP with 44. Flop comes A64o. UTG leads out for 50, he is an okay player. Not sure how to get money in here with a set, can't think of any lines where it's not obvious what I have.

[Loci]

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure how to get money in here with a set,

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if you have any kind of a read on him, that helps to answer, but if you're putting him on an ace/blank, or you think you've got him all but drawing dead, I like the minimum raise here, (assuming he checks the turn)3/4-pot-size-bet the turn, then same size bet the river (if he's gone this far, he'll pay you off another turn-pot-sized-bet). This is, of course, barring any drastic board changes.
In any case, that's how I milk the cow.
Good question, btw. I'm interested to see how other people answer.
Keep playing player.
E

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]

Well, if you have any kind of a read on him, that helps to answer, but if you're putting him on an ace/blank, or you think you've got him all but drawing dead, I like the minimum raise here, (assuming he checks the turn)3/4-pot-size-bet the turn, then same size bet the river (if he's gone this far, he'll pay you off another turn-pot-sized-bet). This is, of course, barring any drastic board changes.
In any case, that's how I milk the cow.
Good question, btw. I'm interested to see how other people answer.
Keep playing player.
E

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I like not doing this.

scrub

[sdplayerb]

i agree. doesn't the minraise make it even more obvious what he has?
unless you do it a ton, minraise just screams i nailed the flop, please call.
i make a normal raise here hoping he puts me on a worse A than him.

[Loci]

I like min raise for the rep of an Ace. I find mid level players, like the one described, will call with A/9 or better with this lay. He'll want to see another card for the ace alone, so you don't want to run him off, but if you're confident he won't bust you by the river, just milk him down. Obviously this won't work on better players, or aggressive players who will be coming at you anyway, but why chase him off or let him get suspicious of the trap? The min raise is just to keep him committed to the later bets.
I'm not trying to beat anyone with a stick on this play, I'm just trying to wean a little money out of a guy that doesn't want to pay to show down. There are a ton of reasons why you could be betting min raise here, and I like the weak representation for a constant call. He needs two runners to win, so you can give him the first bet for free, but if you raise the turn, he'll probably run there. finessing a little more out of him on the flop tends to keep him in for the long run if he calls there.
Again, that's just my opinion.
If you disagree, that's fine, but say more than "I disagree." I'm interested to hear how other players get the maximum pay off in this situation. Again, good question.

[scrub]

Minraising gives away your hand unless you constatntly minraise with hands where your opponent is drawing more live.

If you're minraising enough with holdings where your opponent is drawing live that you're not giving away your hand here, you have bigger problems than how to play a set in this spot.

Raising a set here some of the time is great. Minraising is retarded.

scrub

[sdplayerb]

First, I would never say "i disagree" then say nothing else. That is moronic. Not even sure why you would preface with that.

He is a midlevel player? He said he is an okay player, at 5/10 NL. That really is not a midlevel player. He is going to smell a rat on the minraise.
So if you don't want to run him off, wouldn't a flat call be better? I'm not saying that is what I would do, since I would raise. But based on your not wanting to run him off, a minraise gives away more.

Next, I am not trying to wean a little money out of the guy..I want to double through him. That is the entire reason to play 44. Otherwise calling $30 hoping to just make $130 on something that flops 1 in 7 times is just not a good play.
You play it for one reason..to win a monster pot!

Next he raised UTG..I don't see him having A9 here. I'm really hoping he has AK or AQ and will pay me off.
A minraise gets me an extra $50 and starts to give away my hand.
A flatcall also looks a little suspicious, he likely bets one more time then is done with it.

But since so many people slowplay trips, making a raise with it looks more like an A. So if he has AK, he will think he is ahead since you don't have AK, or he'd expect a reraise, nor a set since you'd probably trap.
So I am trying to break him..so I make it $150 and now AK is in a quandry as if he calls the pot is now $400 and anymore betting, which he'll do with AK unless I am the biggest rock ever, which Bruiser is not, he is going to lose a monster. He ain't ditching AK.

Ok, what if he doesn't have AK or AQ. Well, he is done with the hand no matter what anyway. KK or QQ was taking a stab at it, no reason to flat call and let him hit his set and break you for free. AJ knows his hand is no good, of course you would like to give him a free card, but AK is the most likely hand here, maybe AQ.
I'm playing to win $500-1000 here, which can happen often against AK.
You are playing to win $130 here.

Again, you play small pp to try to break a guy/win a huge pot. That is like most of the reason to play with deep stacks in NL.

[ML4L]

Hey Bruiser,

[ QUOTE ]
5/10 NLHE 1k stacks, UTG raises to 30 someone calls, i call in LP with 44. Flop comes A64o. UTG leads out for 50, he is an okay player. Not sure how to get money in here with a set, can't think of any lines where it's not obvious what I have.

[/ QUOTE ]

If raising the flop here makes it obvious that you have a set, we have a problem...

Raise it up and hope he has AK. If he has KK or something, you probably aren't getting much more anyway unless he thinks you're a nut. So, make maximizing your profits when he has an ace your priority.

ML4L

[theBruiser500]

Heh... ML4l, what else would you raise this flop with?

[ML4L]

[ QUOTE ]
Heh... ML4l, what else would you raise this flop with?

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Frankly, if I raise in this spot, it's usually a bluff. Most hands that would raise from EP and then bet half the pot on the flop are going to have a tough time calling a raise. If I'm playing loose and saw the flop with A6s, A4s, 64, or 75, I'd probably go ahead and pop him too. And, again, I'll raise a set here, because there isn't much point in waiting until the turn. If he doesn't have an ace, you aren't getting more action on the turn. And if the guy can lay down AK to a flop raise from you here, you should be running him over...

To me, calling the flop and raising the turn if he bets screams "set" a lot more than raising the flop.

That having been said, I don't think any specific line is so much better than the others that it makes a difference. So, I probably raise the flop, but maybe I wait until the turn or river. Because sometimes when he has KK and checks, you can fire in an overbet on the turn/river and get called by someone looking to pick off a bluff...

I love hands that I can't screw up.

ML4L