here's a fun hand.

Guruman · #1 12-07-2005, 11:17 PM

villain's first hand at the table.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $2. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets

I think there's a greater than zero chance that an unkown bets when checked to on the flop. I clearly can't just call with the opportunity to steal the whole thing or minimally get headsup.

once we got HU, I felt I had a shot to fold out a better pp or a six by leading out.

TheHip41 · #2 12-08-2005, 01:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
villain's first hand at the table.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $2. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 (poster) checks, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets

I think there's a greater than zero chance that an unkown bets when checked to on the flop. I clearly can't just call with the opportunity to steal the whole thing or minimally get headsup.

once we got HU, I felt I had a shot to fold out a better pp or a six by leading out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or, you could just fold your trash.

This is a small pot, multi way, and this doesn't work enough at 2-4 to warrant this much going in with bottom pair/no redraws.

SNOWBALL138 · #3 12-08-2005, 02:13 AM

I think just folding on the flop is best.

SlyGuy · #4 12-08-2005, 02:15 AM

Fold.

#5 12-08-2005, 02:36 AM

i agree... folding is the best option...

however since you did decide to play it, raising and leading out is 1 billion times better then calling

Guruman · #6 12-08-2005, 09:39 AM

I don't see how this is such an easy fold.

Granted I would have folded a bet from anywhere else, but we've got all of ONE non-random hand in this pot, and no one's shown interest by the time it gets to the guy in position.

What's his range here?
What's your range here?

I think his is waaaay wide, and includes plenty of flush draws, ace highs, and worse deuces. It could also include foldable turn hands like 33-55 and single spade Kings.

why give up so easily?

We've got a hand and we're risking two to win six here (or four to win nine if we have to follow up). You guys may just give too much credit to random hands in position.

Bill Smith · #7 12-08-2005, 10:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why give up so easily? ...You guys may just give too much credit to random hands in position.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the flop...

1. It's a small pot. If the pot were larger, I could see putting up more of a fight.

2. We're out of position with a weak hand.

I'm not in favor of investing 3 BB (the raise on the flop is necessary to drive people out) in a 3 BB pot to keep someone honest with bottom pair in a 5-way pot. In order to make this play profitable, they need to fold a better pair or MISS a flush draw about 40% of the time. Between the times you're shown a Q (maybe even a 6) and the times the flush draw beats you (even by pairing up) I just don't think the flop raise is good.

jskills · #8 12-08-2005, 10:40 AM

This line is a bit of a stretch against an unknown.

One could make a case for folding the flop, but if you feel you must continue ... I'd just call the flop - and check / fold the turn unimproved.

What range of hands do you put him on? Odds are he's holding a Q and not a 6 or 2 yes? Do you think he's folding a Q? A flush draw? Nope.

What's your plan if he raises the turn?

BigBrother · #9 12-08-2005, 04:41 PM

If it doesn't work out, there is something to be said for getting more action at he table after showing down your trash.

I can see myself making your play, but it's a leak I'm trying to fix.

#10 12-08-2005, 04:46 PM

Eeew.