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#21
11-21-2005, 11:37 PM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I nearly choked when I saw how many people wanted to fold in hand 1. In a five handed pot there is only ~5% difference in EV between A8s and AJs. Both likely have dominated Aces. Are you guys folding AJs or ATs. [/ QUOTE ] Is that supposed to be a rhetorical question? Because it's close. [/ QUOTE ] No definitely requires an answer. There's only one raiser, who raised after a limped UTG, one C\C and a poster. We're likely to be getting at least 5:1 on our money. Perfect position. Table is loose. If there was ever a time to call two with this hand..... So, back to the question. Do you fold AJs, ATs here? 
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#22
11-21-2005, 11:53 PM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
I'd probably muck AT and call AJ because I'm a paint whore.
I don't really know what the "~5% EV difference" means - is that really an insignificant number? I hate to use the Slippery Slope argument, but at what point do you stop yourself from saying "Well, A6s is almost the same as A8s"? I don't have pokerstove, so I could be wrong. I just know that 'not coldcalling enough' can't be a leak.
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#23
11-21-2005, 11:57 PM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably muck AT and call AJ because I'm a paint whore. I don't really know what the "~5% EV difference" means - is that really an insignificant number? I hate to use the Slippery Slope argument, but at what point do you stop yourself from saying "Well, A6s is almost the same as A8s"? I don't have pokerstove, so I could be wrong. I just know that 'not coldcalling enough' can't be a leak. [/ QUOTE ] i think thats kind of the point here.... if your calling A8s i think you HAVE to be calling A6s or even A2s. pokerstove wasnt getting answers for me and im still marginal on this hand. but in calling i would have said there is very little difference between AT-2s. is this right?
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#24
11-21-2005, 11:58 PM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
Looks like we should stop at A2s. Some numbers courtesy of planetstacked
the percentage of times we flop: a flush .84% a flush draw 10.9% two pair 2% trips with one hold card 1.35% full boat .09% quads with one hole card .01% total 15.19% 6.2 to 1 I include the flush draw in the calculation because we can profitably cap a two hearted board vs this many opponents. IMO this is a CLEAR call, and more likely a raise for value.
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#25
11-22-2005, 12:37 AM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
[ QUOTE ]
the percentage of times we flop: a flush .84% a flush draw 10.9% two pair 2% trips with one hold card 1.35% full boat .09% quads with one hole card .01% total 15.19% 6.2 to 1 [ [/ QUOTE ] I'm getting the A2s response. I didn't see the cold-call with A8s [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] About the math above: can you "add" your fropping flush % and the flopping flush DRAW % together? I think it sqews (spell) things. And flopping Qd 8c 8s with our A8s - what if preflop raiser has QQ? ok - maybe the chances of those things all happening at once are slim - but are they insignificant?
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#26
11-22-2005, 12:38 AM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
[ QUOTE ]
Looks like we should stop at A2s. Some numbers courtesy of planetstacked the percentage of times we flop: a flush .84% a flush draw 10.9% two pair 2% trips with one hold card 1.35% full boat .09% quads with one hole card .01% total 15.19% 6.2 to 1 I include the flush draw in the calculation because we can profitably cap a two hearted board vs this many opponents. IMO this is a CLEAR call, and more likely a raise for value. [/ QUOTE ] These are the exact type of hands that I want to be involved in. I'll just as happily play 22 as A2s in this situation. I can easily get away from a poor flop and if I get a flop I like, I'm taking down a humungoid pot. Super profitable. calling>>>raising>>>>folding
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#27
11-22-2005, 12:55 AM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
i used pokerstove with a few variables and possible hand ranges before and your never getting more than 15% equity in this pot. i dont think you can justify a value raise here
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#28
11-22-2005, 12:58 AM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
[ QUOTE ]
About the math above: can you "add" your fropping flush % and the flopping flush DRAW % together? I think it skews things. [/ QUOTE ] Adding them is cool. the probabilities are for unique events. IOW, you wont flop a flush draw and a made flush at the same time. [ QUOTE ] And flopping Qd 8c 8s with our A8s - what if preflop raiser has QQ? ok - maybe the chances of those things all happening at once are slim - but are they insignificant? [/ QUOTE ] I picked situations that would be clearly +EV in this situation. If your scenario occured then so be it. That said, you can't deny that Q88 is a miracle flop and we're winning huge with it far more often than we're losing.
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#29
11-22-2005, 01:00 AM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
Its different because a pair of T's will win a lot more than a pair of 2's
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#30
11-22-2005, 01:00 AM
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Re: some pf hands from my session tonight
[ QUOTE ]
i used pokerstove with a few variables and possible hand ranges before and your never getting more than 15% equity in this pot. i dont think you can justify a value raise here [/ QUOTE ] the problem with stoving this one up is that the stove assumes we're seeing the river. That's not a given with this hand. Instead we must determine the probability that we'll see a positive equity situation on the flop.
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