Betting time and other online tells in SNG's

[DeathbySuckout]

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The value added, if any, by studying this issue is much, much smaller than the value you would add by spending the time on something else. You are better off evaluating your game and looking at specific hands for faulty reasoning than you are worrying about whether or not your opponent who took 7 seconds to bet instead of 2 seconds is bluffing.

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Amen, brotha.

There are soooo many factors that could be causing lag time between bets. Please do not spend too much time concerned with it. Especially at the lower level SnGs. Players are doing other things like surfing the internet while playing, eating, chasing their kids around the house [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img], and some are really spending the time to think. You can't tell the difference enough to matter. Multi tablers are always late with their bets, it just means they were betting on other tables.
And as far as your own image, people are not noticing your time between bets usually.

As mosdef said, exert this energy in studying HHs, or reading the boards.

[se2schul]

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...but the slow call move has doubled me up many times in STTs and MTTs. It's just something that works every so often in the right situation, that's all.

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How do you know the slow call worked?
Just because he donked off his stack after you slow called, it does not mean that he wouldn't have done that regardless of the time it took you to call.

It's like that great Simpsons dialog between Homer and Lisa:

Homer: Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.
Lisa: That's spacious reasoning, Dad.
Homer: Thank you, dear.
Lisa: By your logic I could claim that this rock keeps tigers away.
Homer: Oh, how does it work?
Lisa: It doesn't work.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: It's just a stupid rock.
Homer: Uh-huh.
Lisa: But I don't see any tigers around, do you?
[Homer thinks of this, then pulls out some money]
Homer: Lisa, I want to buy your rock.
[Lisa refuses at first, then takes the exchange]

[eniven]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The value added, if any, by studying this issue is much, much smaller than the value you would add by spending the time on something else. You are better off evaluating your game and looking at specific hands for faulty reasoning than you are worrying about whether or not your opponent who took 7 seconds to bet instead of 2 seconds is bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen, brotha.

There are soooo many factors that could be causing lag time between bets. Please do not spend too much time concerned with it. Especially at the lower level SnGs. Players are doing other things like surfing the internet while playing, eating, chasing their kids around the house [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img], and some are really spending the time to think. You can't tell the difference enough to matter. Multi tablers are always late with their bets, it just means they were betting on other tables.
And as far as your own image, people are not noticing your time between bets usually.

As mosdef said, exert this energy in studying HHs, or reading the boards.

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Oh yeah, I agree completely. I'm not advocating reading into other people's betting times, I'm just saying that you can sometimes use your own betting time to manipulate other people's (i.e. mostly bad players) decisions.

I'm sure this is nothing new and was just wondering what sort of similar plays that other people make.

[mosdef]

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Oh yeah, I agree completely. I'm not advocating reading into other people's betting times, I'm just saying that you can sometimes use your own betting time to manipulate other people's (i.e. mostly bad players) decisions.

I'm sure this is nothing new and was just wondering what sort of similar plays that other people make.

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I am sticking with my statement. We are better off spending time working on our game in more concrete ways (as noted above) than we are spending time thinking about how to manipulate people with bet-timing systems. It just seems inconsequential, IMO, whereas how you play difficult hands like TT and AQ in the early stages (for example) is the kind of issue you should be looking at in detail.

[UMTerp]

I got absolutely berated the other night for "slowrolling" my AA. I was ITM at like six or seven tables at the time.

IMO, it's best to just ignore the "timing" tells - there are too many factors that could cause a delay, and I think it's pretty easy to outthink yourself.

One that can be exploited (and one that I'm guilty of on occasion too) is if a multitabler has their check/fold button pressed on their BB. I usually only use this button on the first or second level myself, but some people use it throughout the tourney. It's good to note these players because you can min-raise steal their blinds if you have decent position on them.

[Jbrochu]

Based on my observations, a very fast all-in is more likely to be a bluff, and a long pause followed by a call or raise is more likely to be the nuts.

I don't think these tells are completely reliable but they can help with a close decision.

The other obvious "timing" tell is the pre-selected "check or fold" from the BB. Be careful though, I noticed a player trap using that move.

the people that berated you need to learn what "slowroll" means. it is not possible to do online. slowroll is when the hand is already over and you wait for everyone to turn there cards up and you take your time to turn yours up when you know that you already have the nuts. sort of giving someone else the impression that they have the best hand because no one else has spoken up, then all of a sudden you turn yours up and take the pot. that is why it is considered bad etiquette. the software online immediately determines the winner when all betting is done and a slowroll is not possible.

[Hellmouth]

One limit holdem tell is the very quick three bet. I have noticed that some people will lock in the Raise Any with AA-QQ and AK. If you see someone raise and then immediately after them a reraise with absolutly no lag, expect a monster.

This may not help too many of you though since I guess everyone here plays NL tourneys only.

Greg

[UMTerp]

You're correct of course, though I guess it appeared that I "slowrolled" him by taking an inordinate amount of time to call his all-in with AA preflop. I guess that's about the online equivalent to slowrolling.

[bigt439]

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Oh yeah, I agree completely. I'm not advocating reading into other people's betting times, I'm just saying that you can sometimes use your own betting time to manipulate other people's (i.e. mostly bad players) decisions.

I'm sure this is nothing new and was just wondering what sort of similar plays that other people make.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sticking with my statement. We are better off spending time working on our game in more concrete ways (as noted above) than we are spending time thinking about how to manipulate people with bet-timing systems. It just seems inconsequential, IMO, whereas how you play difficult hands like TT and AQ in the early stages (for example) is the kind of issue you should be looking at in detail.

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The issue is referenced on a semi-regular basis in the mid-high no-limit forum, arguably the most skilled forum on the site, so I believe it has value worth trying to capitalize on.