Threebetting for free showdown?

[emil3000]

I sort of question all my play in this hand, twas quite laggy.. river play is probably ok.

opponent is 39/13/0.9. he sucks.


Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, MP calls.

River: (10.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Final Pot: 12.75 BB

[djoyce003]

um...is this a joke. Threebet the turn for a free showdown? You could call the bet instead of raise and call a river bet and see a showdown for the same number of bets, so there is no point in raising for a "free" showdown because it isn't free, it costs the same.....that's just retarded reasoning. You think your river play is ok? I hope so, you have the stone cold nuts, of course you bet it.

[RunDownHouse]

If I've got a fairly strong hand on the flop, like a pair + draw or sometimes TPTK, and I get c/r'ed on flop, I'll sometimes 3bet if I think I can get away without a cap and check behind on the turn. That way I get to showdown for 1.5 BBs, instead of 2BBs.

That's only an occasional play. Doing it on the turn is, as the other poster pointed out, "retarded," because you're paying the same, plus risking a cap when behind, plus risking a river donk. Best case: same cost for SD. Worst case: much more expensive.

[spydog]

Call his turn raise and be prepared to fold the river unimproved. Based on your limited stats read, you have no reason to believe he would CR bluff you on this board after you 3-bet him preflop.

If you call his CR and improve on the river you win: 4BBs
If you 3-bet his CR and improve on the river you win: 4BBs

Explain the advantage of 3-betting the turn again?????

[emil3000]

[ QUOTE ]
um...is this a joke. Threebet the turn for a free showdown? You could call the bet instead of raise and call a river bet and see a showdown for the same number of bets, so there is no point in raising for a "free" showdown because it isn't free, it costs the same.....that's just retarded reasoning. You think your river play is ok? I hope so, you have the stone cold nuts, of course you bet it.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK,, the fact that i had a draw to the nuts is the reason I raised. I wanted to see a showdown, and this cost as much, plus I got an extra bet in on the river... But I guess I could have just raised the river instedad.

[sy_or_bust]

You call the turn so you can raise the river when you hit and call/fold when you miss. Your logic doesn't work at all.

[emil3000]

I think maybe some piece of my brain was disconnected during this hand...

[djoyce003]

in this case it cost the same...it could cost more however....the point is you can fix the price at 2 more bets...1 to call his turn raise, 1 to call a river bet...the turn threebet means at a bare minimum it costs 2 more bets, your raise plus a possible river bet, or 3 more bets, a cap of your turn raise, then a river bet....either way it's not the best way to play this.

[djoyce003]

[ QUOTE ]
I think maybe some piece of my brain was disconnected during this hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

What is bad is that it appears to be disconnected after the hand as well....i'm not trying to pick on you here, but you need to fully understand why you don't threebet the turn. All threebetting does is give him a chance to cap if he has a monster. It also induces him to possibly check the river (which happened here). You call the raise, so that if you don't improve you can fold, and if you do improve you can raise a river lead by your opponent...winning you the max, and losing you the minimum....your method, you win the exact same amount both ways, which is bad because your chances of winning aren't 50/50, they are more like 30/70. If a diamond hadn't hit on the river you would have lost this hand and lost 3 bets, instead of 2, and if you would have not threebet the turn, you might have gotten a lead out of him when the diamond hit, still winning 4 bets. So by calling the turn instead of threebetting, you stand to lose 2, or win 4, instead of lose 3, or win 4. In addition, you'd have lost even more unimproved if it would have come back to you capped.

[emil3000]

Yeah I understand that now, but thanks for the trouble.