Who the best and worst tippers?? (For Dealers, but anyone is welcome

[Jordan Olsommer]

A perpetual profit machine! Hell yes. My nominee for Post of the Day, and, if I had any say in the matter, a Nobel Prize to boot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Balt:

I agree that at low limit games which are more tourist oriented, my strict requirements need not apply.

best wishes,
mason

[youtalkfunny]

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An older guy, probably in his 60s, named Chip is working there...

He rakes in more tips than anybody else...

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LOL

(Sorry, inside joke. LOLOLOLOLOLOL!)

[Randy_Refeld]

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A new cardroom just opened here. An older guy, probably in his 60s, named Chip is working there as a dealer. Turns out, he dealt in Vegas years and years ago.

He rakes in more tips than anybody else because he keeps the game going in a professional manner and because he's able to carry on a conversation while doing so.

He and I have a standing agreement that he'll tell stories from the old days in Vegas at $1 per. He was telling a few one night and nobody else was taking care of him. So he started whispering the stories to me when I folded. It was pissing off a few of the other players. But Chip just smiled and said "This gentleman is the only one paying to hear the stories. If you'll follow his lead, you'll all get to hear what he's hearing."

Obviously, new dealers won't have those experiences to help build tips. But you can learn from watching the older guys.

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If I was playing and saw/heard this I woud never tip this dealer. If I was supervising this dealer I would have to have a conversation with him about what is appropiate in the box. THe dealer should not be telling stories, he should not be whispering to a player, and he should not suggest that the players aren't tipping enough.

[tylerdurden]

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And thanks for telling me to "STFU"

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Actualy, the "you" in that part of the post was supposed to be the people who try to argue that tipping is bad.

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when, if you want to look at the question from the point of view of someone who actually wants to learn something about the world, you'll realize that the burden of proof is on the person who is pro-tipping, not con. And bonus points for then saying that *my* viewpoint is the convoluted one.

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OK, fine. The onus is on me. You should tip because you're using the services of the dealer and tipping is how they get paid for their services. That's the fact of the matter. Now if you want to argue that this situation should be changed, the onus is on YOU to provide the justification.

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As far as dealer quality goes, let's just run through a quick common-sense kindergarten economics cram session:

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No, let's not. Like I said, this EXACT thread has already been posted, over and over and over again. Go search and read the old posts.

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But no, my lot is to STFU because you don't want to hear it

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Actually, I don't want to hear it, and I wasn't telling YOU to STFU then, but I am now. STFU. We've heard it. And if you go back and READ the old posts, you'd probably be surprised at my position on the "economics" of the situation.

[Jordan Olsommer]

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The onus is on me. You should tip because you're using the services of the dealer and tipping is how they get paid for their services. That's the fact of the matter.

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If you don't tip a dealer, the dealer does not stop dealing you cards. If you do not pay for food in a restaurant (which is how the restaurant gets paid for its services), then you get arrested and the restaurant most certainly stops serving you food. If you can't see the difference between these two scenarios, then I really don't know what to say - I guess you'll just have to rely on clever internet chatroom acronyms to be the crux of your arguments from now on.

[bpb]

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The only reasons I can see why people tip dealers are therefore a) not to look cheap in front of the other players (social pressure); and/or b) empathy or pity (arising out of a concern because they realize that dealers rely heavily on tips, in which case that makes for a very interesting contrast - the cold-hearted poker player who'd bust his own grandmother if she got into a pot with him, yet feels compelled to toss a piece of each pot he wins to someone who agreed to work for X an hour on his own volition with the understanding that tips may or may not come).

Any thoughts on this?

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It's a tipping profession.

Why do you tip the bartender who gives you a PBR but not the cashier at the Dunkin Donuts who gives you your coffee?

Why do you tip the pizza delivery guy, but not the cable TV repairman?

The cardroom pays the dealer minimum wage, and the implicit understanding is that players' tips will bring the total compensation up to a respectable hourly wage.

Personally, I'd rather see the rake raised to $5/pot, give the dealers a good base pay, and eliminate dealer tipping. But as long as they're getting minimum wage, I toss a $1 on every pot I win.

I think it's a good question though, and one that should be able to be asked and discussed with idiots chiming in with "you're a cheapskate".

[goofball]

I don't have a problem with occaisonal talking in the box as long as it doesn't interfere with their dealing.

A quiet, efficient competent dealer is almost exactly as valuble as a dealer with the same level of comptency that talks a bit much.

A dealer that, by talking lowers the quality of the job they are doing? very vrey very minus EV.

[Photoc]

Mason, as a dealer myself, I would appreciate it greatly if I could "average" $1 per hand dealt. If that were the case, I'd make 38-45/hr for the 5.5 or 6 hours I deal. I feel that I run a good game even though it is mostly 4/8 and below and restricted buy in NL.

After talking with some friends at Wynn and other higher end joints, it seems that the lower end players are your more gambling type of tourist that are used to Bj dealers and so on having to talk up their game to make money. I used to do that for a living and can definately recognize the difference. Daily, I hear people complain that the dealers are too quiet and yada yada. But when I'll play 8/16 or 10/20 (never played higher), the game is much better off with a quieter dealer. I'm not saying carry on a conversation about your kids and such but a little good luck, or how is everyone, and maybe answer some questions and such and make the players feel like you're one of them works more to my advantage than anything. But I do know when to just STFU, dummy up and deal! lol

[Jordan Olsommer]

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I think it's a good question though, and one that should be able to be asked and discussed with idiots chiming in with "you're a cheapskate".


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THANK YOU.

I looked at the other "to tip or not to tip" threads in the B&M forum, and they were all exactly like that - one person would put up an argument against the practice (sometimes well thought-out, sometimes braindead [like the people who don't want to tip but want their prices to stay the same too]), and the overwhelming responses were "douchebag", followed by "cheapskate" and "stiff" (in that order [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]). I don't care which side of the fence you fall on, but you can't even discuss the issue in that kind of environment, which is the thing that got to me.

My working hypothesis, though, is that the knee-jerk "just tip and STFU, douchebag" people do such things for the same reason that kids in high school promote the notion that you're only a Real Man if it takes you a lot of beer to get drunk. Meaning, when pressed on the issue, they almost never offer up a rational argument, but instead resort to ganging up with their like-minded friends and just shout you down via some kind of perverted Majority Rule. I can't understand it for the life of me, to be perfectly honest.