Introduction & a few questions

[webgator]

Well, I figured I'd stop lurking and start posting. I like most people only recently started playing poker, both online and offline. I used to play alot of other card games when I was in the Navy, but since my journey in life has taken me down a different path I no longer have the large group a people to play cards & party with, so I went with online poker.

Anyways, it's been about 5 months of playing and for the most part I consider myself a break even player. I honestly have only deposited an inital deposit of $50 at Party and that is it. I made some money and lost some along the way, but never had to re-deposit. So I have been reading and re-reading (especially this forum), studying and researching and have found my game slowly improving along with my confidence. I am currently almost through WLLH by Lee Jones for the third time and am anxiously awaiting Ed Miller's new book. I also will be purchasing Poker Tracker to review my play and hopefully show my leaks and truly prove to myself I am break even. Due to my work schedule and other responsibilites I usually get in about 12 to 15 hours per week right now playing. I started out play NL but have since started playing Limit which has greatly improved my game, however, I am usually still playing the micro limits .05/.10.

Now for the questions...

1. I have the bankroll to move up but still am gaining confidence in my play. Everything I read says when I am dominating the level I am at then I should move up...how can I tell I am dominating?

2. I want to set some goals, much like a step program. I know one particular goal is to utilize this for a little extra fun money, so therefore winning is important. Any suggestions on what to shoot for?

3. Should I be bonus whoring?

[webgator]

Ooops, thought I was in the Beginners Forum...please move.

[RED_RAIN]

Welcome to the forum. Seems you are doing good steps to moving up.

[ QUOTE ]
Poster: webgator
Subject: Re: Introduction & a few questions

Well, I figured I'd stop lurking and start posting. I like most people only recently started playing poker, both online and offline. I used to play alot of other card games when I was in the Navy, but since my journey in life has taken me down a different path I no longer have the large group a people to play cards & party with, so I went with online poker.

Anyways, it's been about 5 months of playing and for the most part I consider myself a break even player. I honestly have only deposited an inital deposit of $50 at Party and that is it. I made some money and lost some along the way, but never had to re-deposit. So I have been reading and re-reading (especially this forum), studying and researching and have found my game slowly improving along with my confidence. I am currently almost through WLLH by Lee Jones for the third time and am anxiously awaiting Ed Miller's new book. I also will be purchasing Poker Tracker to review my play and hopefully show my leaks and truly prove to myself I am break even. Due to my work schedule and other responsibilites I usually get in about 12 to 15 hours per week right now playing. I started out play NL but have since started playing Limit which has greatly improved my game, however, I am usually still playing the micro limits .05/.10.

Now for the questions...

1. I have the bankroll to move up but still am gaining confidence in my play. Everything I read says when I am dominating the level I am at then I should move up...how can I tell I am dominating?


[/ QUOTE ]

You feel you can win and you have enough hands in your mind to move up without feeling like you want to stop playing poker if you hit a bad run in a higher limit. I usually liked to stay at least 10k hands at a level before moving up regardless of bankroll.

[ QUOTE ]
2. I want to set some goals, much like a step program. I know one particular goal is to utilize this for a little extra fun money, so therefore winning is important. Any suggestions on what to shoot for?

[/ QUOTE ]

300 BBs at each level:
.5/1
1/2
2/4
3/6
500 BBs at:
5/10
10/20
15/30
then sky is the limit...

[ QUOTE ]
3. Should I be bonus whoring?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe anyone playing under 5/10 should not be bonus chasing.

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
3. Should I be bonus whoring?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe anyone playing under 5/10 should not be bonus chasing.

[/ QUOTE ]


Why is that? I starting whoring the last month or so after building up to a +300BB at 3/6 and have made at least $600 to $700 on the bonuses. Also, I've heard that after the 5/10 level it was more profitable to do the rakebacks than bonuses. Just wondering why you don't think it's a good idea.

[webgator]

I think that is what he meant...I should be since I am playing under the 5/10 level.

[Pov]

Yes, you should definitely be whoring. Read Homer's Building a Bankroll for Newbies .

Your question on when to move up is an excellent one. In general the answer is that if you start at the appropriate bankroll then play until you win 300-500 BB for the next level you will probably be ready to move up as long as you feel comfortable. However, bonus whoring can confuse this issue as you make a lot of extra money that you didn't really win. Sure you got it from playing poker, but you didn't take it from the other players so I highly suggest not counting your bonus whoring winnings as money you've won. Use it for tournament money or withdraw it or leave it in but make sure not to move up until you are ready.

I like the staggered approach to moving up. Let's say you have $300. That would be 300 BB at $.50/$1 so you play at that level. The next level being $1/$2, you're looking for $600 before you move up. You might actually start to dabble in $1/$2 when you hit $500 or if you're really feeling confident maybe even $400. You wouldn't play $1/$2 all the time, just start trying it out maybe every third time you play until you're winning at that level. If you hit a bad run or have trouble adjusting and drop down to under $400 then switch back to $.50/$1 until you hit $500 again. Rinse. Repeat.

The reason I like this method a bit better than strictly waiting for 300 BB at the next level is because levels can be surprisingly different in how they play. In particular I noticed a strong difference between $2/$4 and $3/$6. It's not just quality of opposition either. Even the bad players play differently at different limits. If you hit 300 BB and then just switch limits cold I think you're likely to struggle at the new level.

[aargh57]

I'm so stupid. Yes, I misread his post.

[RED_RAIN]

Maybe I didn't write it clear, you should be bonus chasing if you play under 5/10.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually liked to stay at least 10k hands at a level before moving up regardless of bankroll.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would disagree fairly strongly with this statement applied to the true microlimits (sub-Party limits like $.02/.04 and .05/.10, I mean). If you have objective reasons to believe you aren't just clobbering the game as a statistical anomaly, then you're probably ready to move up.

For example, I decided I'd learned all I could from Pacific's .05/.10 after 27 hours (probably about 1000 hands), +202 BBet, 7.5 BBet/hour. It would be ludicrous to say that I need to put more time in, even if it might be unlikely that I can consistently beat any game for 7.5 per hour. I can certainly beat a game where 7 and 8 are seeing flops, so I don't think there would have been any point in racking up 10k hands there.

I know RED_RAIN probably had bigger games in mind, but I'm just saying.... don't apply that advice, or any advice, unthinkingly

[RED_RAIN]

Yes when I wrote my post, I said "I" like to. I have never played anything lower than .5/1, so referring to levels .5/1 and above yes.

It's amazing to me that you could learn all you could from 1000 hands or so. If someone has played say more than 50k hands even in their poker career then they probably know that 10k-15k hands stat wise mean very little referring to BB/100 rate. Or at least should know. How anyone is confident they can beat a game for 7 BB/100 muchless with little to no poker experience at the 0.05/0.10 is beyond me.

If someone wants to start their poker career with no money or very little money to start (say $10), then yes, only really need maybe 150 BBs to move up through levels up to .5/1. At .5/1, that's where more "real" poker starts and you need a bigger roll. Experience is good at any level, I over stayed my visit at .5/1, but that allowed me to learn and not have to think about money issues. Then when I went through 1/2 and 2/4 it was a quick trip to 3/6 where I stayed for awhile.

It all also depends on if you care to reload ever or if you just play for fun or what your reason for playing is.