Who's tournament Advice would you follow?

[balt999]

Been thinking about this for a while, and actually asked this question a few months back, but I decided to rehash the subject, which player's advice would you most likely follow:

Player A) Someone who has a ton of early knock outs, but when they do well, they usually finish in the top 3.

Player B) Someone who'll slides into the money; rarely gets knocked out early, but rarely finishes in the top 3.

I ask, cause all the regular posters in this forum usually fit into one of these profiles.


balt999 Journal About Poker and Life

[pryor15]

i'd tend to go w/ "b", but i'm probably biased there since i'm closer to "b". i tend to think that late in a tourney one bad beat can kill you, since the blinds are so high.

think of it this way, would you put more stock in the team that finished at least 9-7 every year, nearly always made the playoffs, and occasionally won the whole thing, or the team that's 5-11 one year, in the super bowl the next, and then 5-11 for 3 more years?

[CCraft_42]

Have only been playing tournys for the past 2 months, I do not fit either A or B
I have a game plan re calls, raises , all in, etc and stick to it till the blinds force me to ease up. Has worked very well so far but still have a long way to go improve my game.
Glad you asked the question,

[EnderIII]

Player A. One top 3 finish is worth so much more than a multitude of cashes. I'll pick a random tournament to illustrate the point. 30+3 tournament, 700 players.
1st 4620
2nd 2730
3rd 1785

10th 210
20th 178
70th 63

Player A and Player B each play in this tournament 100 times. Player A only makes the money twice, but once wins first and the other time gets third. 98 bust outs to 2 cashes seems to be the extreme version of Player A. Total winnings 6405 -3300 for entry fees = net 3105.

Player B manages to make the money 50 times, but never higher than 10th.
5 10th place finishes = 1050
15 20th place finishes = 2670
30 70th place finishes = 1890
for a total of 5610 - 3300 for entry fees = 2310 net.

While player B is still making money, he/she just isn't making as much as player A. I understand that the numbers here are arbirtary, they are only meant to illustrate just how important it is to make the top 3. Player A has increased variance and volatility, but will make more money in the long run if they don't lose their bankroll.

Some of this may be skewed as I tend toward being of player A type profile. Half of the time i make the money, i make the final table, but i don't make the money nearly as often because I get busted on the bubble a lot trying to accumulate a bigger stack against people playing tighter. But I think the fact that two top 3 finishes are worth more than 50 assorted other finishes is rather compelling.

[JaBlue]

I follow the advice of whoever wins more money.

[Rusty266]

I'm not going to follow either ones advice.

Is there an option C?

Player C) Someone who plays to win or at least finish top 3 at all times, and believes that anything worse is a waste of time, but someone who also understands that to finish first, first you have to finish.


Maybe thats a combination of both A & B, I don't know. Playing to slide into the money is ridiculous, not to mention worthless, and getting knocked out early is unthinkable and almost inexcusable. I mean whats the point? You take the ultimate risk so you can possibly have have a big stack early? That can be an important thing, but unfortunately it guarantees nothing. In most situations, you are 2 hands from being knocked out of the tournament regardless of your stack. Having a big stack early can and should accomplish one thing though. It should guarantee you an above average chance of putting yourself in a position to get lucky in the later stages of the tournament. And thats the whole deal anyway. To win, or make the top 3, or final table, whatever your goal is, you must put yourself in position to get lucky when it matters.

And I've done it both ways. I've had the big stack early, stayed near the top the whole tournament, and ended up winning. And I've hung around at or just below the average chip stack, got lucky when it mattered, and won.

My preference would be to have the early lead, but the bottom line is, it can happen either way. You take what the tournament gives you. If you get the cards or the opportunities to build a stack early, thats a great thing. But if not, do not despair. Its a lot easier to make it to the top late, than it is early. Only if you are still in the tournament of course.

[zaxx19]

IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT MAKING MONEY IN MTT:

I think in the age of 500+ fields you need to listen to option A.

The payouts are just SO skewed towards the top 3 spots that an overly agressive and gambling style will simply more EV$wise. I think Raymer's style perfectly illustates this.

IF YOU JUST ENJOY PLAYING IN MTTS:

Id probably go with the tighter model bc you generally get more "play" for your entry and I dont think it dampens your chances at a top 3 THAT much as long as you can accumulate late in a tourney. Honestly in order to win a tourney you are gonna have to have some hands/win some races late its just that simple.


P.S. It didnt take me very long to figure out you really dont make gobs of money in MTT play anyway. If you really want to make cash either get really good at a ring game or learn to 12 table 1-2 on PP with pokertracker-pokerview.

[housenuts]

will they ever change the payout structure? why is it so top-heavy?

[SoBeDude]

neither option is correct.

I have a friend who is ranked on pocketfives as a TOP online tourney player. He has over 30 first finishes in MTTs.

Yet I actually NET more money from these tournies that he does.

So because he has visibility in many tournies and winning, people think he is a winning tourney player. He is not.

He plays every tourney, and the R/A tournies he spends a fortune on. (like $250-500 in rebuys in a $30 R/A tourney)

He spends as much in entry fees as he makes in winnings, so he's netting nothing. Yet people perceive him as this great online player. Yes he is tough, but he's not winning money.

-Scott

[Potowame]

I think the hardest thing in a trny is trying to weed through those guys that hardly ever money, and have no problem calling off thier hole stack with a -20% edge.
You got to love those guys, but they will cripple you or bust you sometimes.

I think you need to take advise from soild players that have a understanding of the game , than create your own style that you can play well with. So take opinions of both A&B and make C HEHE.