Axo and the fish

[Vee Quiva]

Many fish will call a small bet on the flop with any remote possibility of having a hand. Middle pair, bottom pair, 3 to a flush or straight. You need to keep betting if you have one or two opponents.

Now if you bet and 3 or more opponents call then you should consider checking on the next street.

The one or two times the fish has the ace does not lose you more than you can make by value betting when they call with draws and middle pair.

[RoundTower]

I'm going to call the OP with A2. Clearly I can outplay him after the flop.

[AceofSpades]

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I'd call 'em. Like Barron said, you want this guy to keep playing his rag Ax because, in the long run he's going to lose much more playing those cards than he's going to win. You'll win more times than lose, and even when you lose, you're giving the fish a little tidbit that will make him think it's cool to hold the Ax because he won a pot.

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A tidbit called implied odds... Aren't you giving him this if you pay off with an underpair on all streets?

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
Many fish will call a small bet on the flop with any remote possibility of having a hand. Middle pair, bottom pair, 3 to a flush or straight. You need to keep betting if you have one or two opponents.

Now if you bet and 3 or more opponents call then you should consider checking on the next street.

The one or two times the fish has the ace does not lose you more than you can make by value betting when they call with draws and middle pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yah, I see your point, but I'm pretty sure in the games I play it's +EV to fold ASAP (tend to be multiway - 4+ in).

In less family-pot games, you need to be less robotic in your folding for sure, and play as you suggest for - I dunno - say 50% of hands? (watch and know your Ace-wonders is the play here, obviously). It would be marginally +EV I'd think, and also keeps the fish fed.

[Pog0]

If your pair is second pair or a PP better than second pair, why not just bet the river? He'll call his aces, sure, but he'll also call all other pairs. If you check, he'll probably only bet his aces and I don't like folding here very much.

Your check screams "I don't have an ace!" and even the fish may try to bluff you with his 23s that missed on the river, so I don't know how right check/folding can be here. However, he's more likely to have a mediocre hand and check behind (or call if bet to) than he is to have a missed draw and bluff if checked to.

Bet/fold please (if your pair => 2nd pair.

[winky51]

Hmm thats a good point. He might have the weak ace, he might have a hand like 55. If he raises you fold. By betting you get the best of both worlds. Since more times than not he will have the underpair. Thus all those times you bet and he calls with the underpair you will make up for the Axo hand calling you down. Thanks very logical.

[winky51]

Now with all that said wouldnt a fish eventually catch on?

He sees you just bet all the way down to the end and now he only calls with the ace on the river and DOESNT call anymore with the 55 pair. Maybe I am giving them too much credit. I think if the fish is slightly perceptive you have to check it once in a while, maybe?

I notice when I see a guy just bet, bet, bet all the way reguardless of the board after he PF raised.

[Xhad]

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Now with all that said wouldnt a fish eventually catch on?

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No. That's why they're fish.

You will often have a suited broadway ace when you bet through on an A-high board, so that's their incentive not to bluff raise.

They will still call down with bottom pair because they're not trying to read your hand. Again, that's why they are fish.

[winky51]

hehe I guess I give them too much credit. well I am glad I learned a new lesson today.