simultaneous overpair turns early in a session

[Guruman]

I'm about 15 or 20 hands into a couple of party 2/4 tables that I picked for large pot sizes.

on one table I came accross this. Villain has looked a little passive so far, but not ridiculously so.

Party Poker (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
hero raises<font color="#666666">5 folds</font> sb calls, bb calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, bb checks, hero bets, SB folds bb calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, hero bets, bb raises, hero...

at the same time on table two I'm dealt this:

Party Poker (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">8 folds</font>hero raises, bb calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, hero bets, bb raises, hero raises, bb calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, hero bets, bb raises, hero...

both opponents are largely unknown, but I havent seen anything crazy out of either so far.

should I go into auto calldown mode here, or can I threebet and fold to a cap/river lead?

Party switched to a three bet cap? (read your flop action in hand two is wrong)

I am definitely calling down both, hand two especially. He could easily have J10 (which you beat).

[jt1]

in general a bb could have anything so I usally just call down against a bb. TQ is a very reasonable hand for anyone so on that board, I'd just call down any player.

I'd just call down on hand 2 also. Anything else would be spewing.

[MrEngenic]

You should not fold and you should definately not 3bet. Standard call down for me.

[W. Deranged]

Just get both of these to showdown.

Hand #1 two pair seems like one of the most likely holdings. Against two pair you have tons of outs.

Hand #2 I think you're in slightly worse position, though a 6 isn't the only possibility, and the pot is a bit bigger.

[BigBrother]

Against most straightforward 2/4 players you are behind to 2-pair a lot in hand 1 (of course the str8 is possible too), so calling down is justified. Whether to call the river UI is read dependent so if you have no read calling is not spewing, YHIG enough in that game to make it neutral EV.

In hand 2 you are looking at a 6 a lot of the time, but the possibility that villain may think you are raising light in a blind-steal situation could be increasing his aggression (this would more likely be the case in a tougher game).

Just calling down and showing your QQ will have value for later blind-steal attempts, so that should be a consideration if your table line-up is conducive to letting you steal the blinds a lot.

And as someone else mentioned, your Queens-up is ahead of JT so calling down is OK.

It's pretty hard to make a big laydown with an overpair so soon after sitting with a table of unknowns. While the pots are not that big, at least if you are beat you gain some info on your opponents that may help in future hands.

Both boards are scary enough to me that 3-betting unkown players here borders on spewage IMO, so I really can't find a raise here.

On hand one I think against a farily passive player you can assume you are usually behind here but if the villian has hit 2 pair you have 8 outs getting 7-1 but you could also be drawing dead to a straight. Calling here though leaves us in a tough position where if we miss we will have an over pair getting 9-1 and will likely not want to fold on the river, also if somethng like a 9 falls we may be against an 89 fh or a counterfeited J8 2 pair or a QT straight. Since the opponent is fairly passive and we may be drawing dead and when we have outs we will be unable to raise for value if we hit them I think this is a fold.

For hand 2, it is much more likely the villain has improved to a hand that is still worse than ours as we even have JT beat and it is possible he has hit some sort of flush draw/ straight draw combination that he is raising with but we are still ahead of and we hold the Qc a stopper card to many of the possible draws. Here I reccomend a 3-bet and then a value bet on the river unless a scare card hits. If he caps I call and then call the river.

Edit: There are no legitimate draws the villain could have here after 4 betting this flop, but in a blind steal situatuion I think villain shows AT or JT often enough that with no reads a call down is best but with reads villain is agressive especially in blind steal situatuions there is still value in raising.