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  #11  
Old 04-15-2005, 01:56 PM
MVicuna MVicuna is offline
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Default Re: 30-60, JJ in the BB

[ QUOTE ]

that said the flop is an odd line to take, but the turn and river are very routine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

Given his odd line can he expect any hand he beats to call? I understand the pot is big, but they are more likely to fold then to call with anything less then a Q. TT is the only other hand I'd expect to call that he beats.

When I bet into two loose fish on a blank river after 3 betting the flop I normally see everyone fold or KQ/QJ/QT call or I get raised by Q9/97/68/99.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2005, 02:17 PM
Robb Robb is offline
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Default Re: 30-60, JJ in the BB

I disagree with CDC that the river is very routine - I think it's pretty close. But I do agree with CDC that a bet is best.

Factors:
1) a worse hand will fold vs. bet if you check
2) someone has a Queen or better

However, the board makes it such that people might believe you were on a draw and could call down with very little, making betting the better choice imo.
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2005, 02:25 PM
James282 James282 is offline
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Default Re: 30-60, JJ in the BB

No way. A bet is incredibly correct. Typical limper types in these games will definitely pay you off with A7 and multiple other holdings that they raised on the flop. Conversely, they would love a free showdown. If they thought their hands were good given the flop action, they will have the same feelings on the river. The queen is the exact card that you MUST bet because given the overcard, it becomes far less likely that weak players will bet hands worse than a queen, with the exception of busted draws. Given the flop action, weaker pairs that JJ are far more likely than busted draws, so the river is a must bet.
-James
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2005, 02:47 PM
Robb Robb is offline
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Default Re: 30-60, JJ in the BB

Well debating about the strength of the play isn't too terribly insightful since we both agree a bet is correct. A7 is certainly a viable holding but so are other whiffs.

I seem to be in the zone right now with my river play --- value betting vs inducing in similar spots....so at the table I would have a better feel for it based on my opponents' tendencies. Here I just don't think it's a no-brainer bet but rather a close decision.
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  #15  
Old 04-15-2005, 04:20 PM
MVicuna MVicuna is offline
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Default Re: 30-60, JJ in the BB

Hi,

I'll take your word on it, but I regret betting the river vs two opponents on these nonsense boards as I have to payoff raises or nobody calls. HU I can see betting any showdownable hand as they'll keep you honest, but even fish know on some level you betting the river OOP into two players means you have a real hand and fold hands you want to call.

If I was in LP and 3 bet the flop and bet every street I'd expect worse hands to call, but more people will see his Check-raising the entire field out of position as a show of strength then a draw pumping up the pot.

We are also discussing this in a vacuum. For all we know OP is seen as a LAG, then a river bet is good or the loose fish could be VPIP of 80 and sees a showdown everytime with ace high.

Thanks,
MarkV.
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  #16  
Old 04-15-2005, 04:46 PM
poker1O1 poker1O1 is offline
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Default Re: 30-60, JJ in the BB

2 possible lines, either raise preflop and play it aggressive from there, or check preflop, call flop, and check raise turn.
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