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  #1  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:25 PM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: galapagos islands of course
Posts: 825
Default ($60) early risk w/TT

I have just about run out of note space on villian from a couple prior meetings. He's apparently independantly wealthy -- his poker play sure isn't keeping him at the tables. An over-donk if you ever met one. MULTIPLE pushes in L1/L2 PF. He actually started this game open-pushing UTG...showing AQo (as if to say "see? a good one").

Anyway, I guess this goes toward the whole 'double-up early' thing - at what risk? FWIW, I had 3 others noted as well - all weak players.

2nd hand:

Stars Turbo
Seat 1: (1500 in chips)
bluefeet (1490 in chips) button
Seat 3: (1480 in chips) SB
Seat 4: (1530 in chips) BB donk
Seat 5: (1500 in chips)
Seat 6: (1500 in chips)
Seat 7: (1500 in chips)
Seat 8: (1500 in chips)
Seat 9: (1500 in chips)

Seat 3: posts small blind 10
Seat 4: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bluefeet [Tc Td]
6 folds
bluefeet: raises 60 to 80
1 fold
Seat 4: pooooooooooooooosh!!!
bluefeet: ???

I realize I did a pretty good sell job here. But I'm not insinuating that I called.

I'm curious what your calling range is against THIS villian.
How about without a read (having witnessed the 1st hand of course)?
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:40 PM
bigt439 bigt439 is offline
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Posts: 134
Default Re: ($60) early risk w/TT

[ QUOTE ]
MULTIPLE pushes in L1/L2 PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

With...

therein lies your answer.

Against the villain you described you can probably call, but you did make him out to be a villain that you could call against.
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:47 PM
bluefeet bluefeet is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
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Posts: 825
Default Re: ($60) early risk w/TT

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MULTIPLE pushes in L1/L2 PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

With...

therein lies your answer.

Against the villain you described you can probably call, but you did make him out to be a villain that you could call against.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. What is your cut off? TT+/AK+ What about without the read? It's generally agreed that a push over a 3-4x in L1 is often a mid-PP. Is your calling range similar had this been the 1st hand, and no read?

Eh, no biggie. Not too often we face this stuff, just curious.
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:53 PM
Mvcode3 Mvcode3 is offline
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Posts: 5
Default Re: ($60) early risk w/TT

Without a read I easily get away from this hand. With this donk It may be worth taking a shot at doubling up early id say my range is anywhere from 99+ to AKo. I think Id rather have AK then TT because there is a greater chance he is pushing with AQS-ATS then 88 or less. With a guy like this you want to be sure to have him dominated.
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  #5  
Old 12-13-2005, 12:32 AM
bigt439 bigt439 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 134
Default Re: ($60) early risk w/TT

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
MULTIPLE pushes in L1/L2 PF.

[/ QUOTE ]

With...

therein lies your answer.

Against the villain you described you can probably call, but you did make him out to be a villain that you could call against.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. What is your cut off? TT+/AK+ What about without the read? It's generally agreed that a push over a 3-4x in L1 is often a mid-PP. Is your calling range similar had this been the 1st hand, and no read?

Eh, no biggie. Not too often we face this stuff, just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, ask away man; if this situation comes up once you've made yourself money. Yeah, as the pairs drop in rank you lose value quickly. That's because you stop dominating things like 88 or A9. With TT, against this specific opponent, it doesn't sound like you're dominated often and a lot of the time you'll have him dominated. Racing here isn't optimal, but if there's a good chance he's dominated, bad chance you are...

You've described a very rare opponent though. Against a normal villain I muck this, and pretty fast, because it could just as easily be a fish pushing big pairs. They do that lots for some reason. But yeah TT is approaching cutoff for me.
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  #6  
Old 12-13-2005, 12:46 AM
tjh tjh is offline
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Posts: 176
Default Re: ($60) early risk w/TT

I posted HERE last night regarding pushing with TT.

The data that would support or not support this call is easy enough to find from Poker Tracker. My stats are included below.

I feel like level one has a special stupidity factor that should be taken into account. Wether or not this factor dissipates as you go up levels, well I am taking shots at the 30's but my home is the 20's so I do not know.

I did not have all that many SNG's in my Pokertracker DB. From what I did have I grabbed the hands from all the times that players went all-in and were called by another player in level one on party. These are 20's.

Here are they hands. They are paired or tripled for hands that are from the same all-in event. These are what they are pushing or calling a push with in level one.


[ Ac, Ah ]
[ Ks, Qh ]

[ Ad, Ac ]
[ Qs, Jc ]

[ 9s, 9c ]
[ 3s, 3c ]

[ Kc, Ks ]
[ 9s, 9c ]

[ Ad, Qh ]
[ 9s, 9c ]

[ Jc, 8c ]
[ 7d, 7c ]

[ Ks, Ts ]
[ Tc, Ad ]

[ Th, Td ]
[ Qs, Ad ]

[ As, Qs ]
[ 8c, 8h ]

[ Qs, Qd ]
[ Th, Ts ]

[ Kc, Jh ]
[ 7c, 7s ]

[ Ks, Ac ]
[ 9s, 9d ]

[ 6h, 6d ]
[ Ah, Ad ]

[ Qd, Kh ]
[ Kc, Ks ]
[ As, Ah ]

[ Jc, Jh ]
[ Kh, Ac ]

[ Ad, As ]
[ Ks, 4d ]

[ Qd, Qs ]
[ Td, Ad ]
[ Jh, Js ]

[ Jh, Ks ]
[ 7d, 7h ]
[ Jc, As ]

I see 11 hands that are better than a pair of tens. Out of the 39 hands that I show that makes them look pretty good.
11 hands that are better preflop.
28 that I tie or beat.

Probably in order to call a push rather than make it you should look at the higher hand from each group. From this simple analysis it looks like an even money situation. ABout half of the groups have a higher hand than TT. THis assumes that the big hand pushed and the little hand called, not always true.

Of course if you are going to lose it is best to lose early and you have notes on this guy.

For what it is worth only 23 out of 39 hands are even pairs.

Small sample I know. Anyone else want to add data on preflop all-ins first level only ?

I don't know if there is a simple query or filter to show the data, I just went through tourney by tourney looking for level one hands with a pot of about 1600 2400 or any large pots then brought up the hand history.

Does this support a pocket 10 call ??
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