J 10 suited, on the button...

laceratedsky · #1 06-20-2004, 03:49 PM

Running incredibly bad lately, this certainly did not help. Did I miss something here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (10 handed) converter

UTG+1 ($26.15)
UTG+2 ($8.12)
MP1 ($64.55)
MP2 ($25.15)
MP3 ($25)
CO ($25.30)
Hero ($19.50)
SB ($18.95)
BB ($31.25)
UTG ($38.40)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $2, MP3 (poster) folds, CO folds, Hero calls $2, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: ($5.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 bets $3, Hero raises to $6, MP2 calls $3.

Turn: ($17.25) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $11.5 (All-In), MP2 calls $11.50.

River: ($40.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $40.25
Main Pot: $40.25, between MP2 and Hero. > Pot won by MP2 ($40.25).

Results in white below: 
MP2 shows Qh Qd (two pair, queens and sixes).
Hero shows Jh Th (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: MP2 wins $40.25. 

Any help is appreciated.

laceratedsky

2283 · #2 06-20-2004, 04:37 PM

preflop: i dont think you have to play this, the raise is 10% of your stack. i think id fold to that raise about half the time, depending on how the game is going and who is raising.

flop: i would raise more (maybe to 8 or 9). scream at him "i have something!" if he calls/raises (especially if he just calls - no draws are out there) check/fold the rest of the way if you dont improve.

MrBlini · #3 06-20-2004, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Did I miss something here?

[/ QUOTE ]You missed the chance to fold preflop.

JTs is a fine hand to play behind a $2 raise when you have $100+ in front of you and position on another $100+ stack. It is not a particularly good hand to call a $2 raise with when, as the previous poster pointed out, $2 represents 10% of your stack. The only redeeming feature is that you are on the button. For me, that is not enough.

I don't like raising to $9 because you'll be pot-committed once you do. By the time you get the information you want, it's too late to act on it. Even if you think you are beat, I don't think you can lay this down getting better than 3:1 on your call on later streets. Yet, if you are bet into after having made it $9 to go on the flop, you are behind more often than not.

You could avoid having to make the crying call if you move all-in on the flop. However, if you move all-in, you're risking $18 to win $7, and you'll only get called by better hands or unskilled opponents. If your opponent does have a better hand, you're drawing to at most five outs twice. I don't think moving all-in is worth the risk at all.

The best line I can see here is to min-raise as you did and check through the turn, giving a free river card. If it isn't an overcard, you probably have an easy call if your opponent bets into you on the river. You will induce the river bluff, or even a bad value bet from the likes of TT, often enough to make it worth calling a bet up to about the size of the pot, which is all you'll have left anyway. If you're not bet into on the river, you have the option of taking the free showdown or trying to find a value bet.

Another legitimate (but weak) line would be to fold to the flop bet. I think this would be correct against an opponent who almost never bluffs. You might be conceding the hand to the likes of AK or TT, but overcards have a lot of ways to beat you still, and if your read on the opponent is makes bluffing unlikely, you can discount these possibilities pretty heavily.

Rage23 · #4 06-20-2004, 07:58 PM

i like to think of J10s as a drawing hand...not sure if i would call the preflop raise, but considering you do call the raise and see the flop...
with J10 and no flush draws out there, he has you beat with QJ KJ AJ, JJ QQ KK AA. lots of party poker players raise with all of these hands preflop, so unless you have a good read on this player, i'd probably muck the J10 after his bet on the flop simply because your hand really can't improve much. even if he didn't have a Jack, he probably holds a hand that stands a good chance of improving...

not sure you'll agree with this...just my opinion