KK vs AA in a big tournament, best way to avoid going broke?

sirio11 · #1 01-07-2005, 06:03 PM

This is the hand I went broke in the PS WPT tournament. Blinds 50-100, Lee Markholt calls in EP (He has about 17K), I have KK in LP, I raise to $350 ( I have about 10K), everybody fold, and then he takes his time and raised 1000 more, I didnt like his raise; but by then Im not particulary impressed with his play, He just won a big pot when called an all in bet with a par and flush draw in the flop against AA, and looks like now with chips, he wants to take control of the table. Im thinking in going all in, thoughts of the only 2 WSOP Championships that I have played (99 and 04) came to my mind (More bad beat histories in big tournaments posted here http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&fpart=1). In both I have KK vs AA. So I just decide to call and see his reaction to the flop. Flop came J92, and he bets 1500, I decide to put him to the test and just raise to 3000. He asked how much I have left and then raises all in. My agony begins, I take like 3 minutes, until someone in the table call a clock on me. I look at Lee, and my read tells me He doesnt have JJ, I dont think he made that play with AJ,QQ,99, or even KK; so he has AA. Even his fake nerviousness help me to decide he has AA. They start counting 1 minute, and Im almost folding and keep my 6k chips, but then I think, ey I have only played 3 tournaments with buy ins $8000 or more, and I'd had KK-AA in the previous 2, what are the odds, Im calling this time. So I called and he show me AA, my read was right, no help, and Im gone and feel like crap. First thought, go cry to 2+2.
What do you think is the best way to avoid going broke in the early stages of a tournament with KK-AA?

David C

Potowame · #2 01-07-2005, 06:10 PM

keep the pot smaller

DaveWilliams · #3 01-07-2005, 06:12 PM

I was in the vicinity and saw this hand unfold. Lee later told me that he feared that you hit your set of jacks. I'm sorry about your luck, but EP limp-reraise has to set off alarms even from a "loose" player. Very tough luck here, but a Hellmuthian fold would of been nice here. Also, im still alive doing well, I will post a complete trip report for 2+2 for sure, as I my notebook handy. Later-Dwilli

Fudomyo · #4 01-07-2005, 06:27 PM

Staying in the tourney is probably more important this early. Laying down KK or AA is tough though.

Whenever I think what are the odds he has AA again(!) I get screwed. Go with your read.

sirio11 · #5 01-07-2005, 06:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lee later told me that he feared that you hit your set of jacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was the reason I made the minimum raise in the flop, hoping he was scared wit a set of 9s or Js, and since I have position, I was ready to check the turn and not going broke; but he wasnt and went all in. I should fold, but Im no Hellmuth; working on it, though.

David C

nuclear500 · #6 01-07-2005, 06:38 PM

'Hellmuthian'

Now THATS a term to go into the books.

"No one else could have made that lay down!"

sdplayerb · #7 01-07-2005, 06:40 PM

First, that is a bummer.

Next, you need to go with your intuition..and it was right, he had AA.
My main point is though that you convinced yourself to call because you had before lost with KK to AA and thought what was the chances. Past occurrences have zero effect on the likelihood of something happening again.
Flip a coin..it comes up heads. Is it less likely to come up heads next time?

One time twice in about 2 or 3 hours I had my KK run into AA, it happens.

Plus you lose to AA, JJ and beat QQ, those are the only three real possible hands. AA is far and away the most likely to limp/reraise.
Still sucks.

SossMan · #8 01-07-2005, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
keep the pot smaller

[/ QUOTE ]

how could he have kept it any smaller? I don't get it.

he made a small raise preflop (given the limper), flat called preflop when he could have reraised, minraised the flop with an overpair.

As far as the overall play...I don't know how his all in doesn't scream AA to you. A limp reraise followed by a bet out, followed by an all in rereraise? Your one pair is definitely no good there. I don't think most players are capeable of making that string of plays with QQ (the only other choice), since he's clearly not afraid of AA/KK.

I would probably play it the same way but make the "hellmuthian" laydown to the all in. But let's not kid ourselves, with the stacks this deep, it's not that big of a laydown.

DemonDeac Holding Rockets · #9 01-07-2005, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]

What do you think is the best way to avoid going broke in the early stages of a tournament with KK-AA?

David C

[/ QUOTE ]

trust ur initial read/feel

Potowame · #10 01-07-2005, 08:06 PM

Well I think the Play was fine but if he feared AA, as would most What really is he betting like this AK AA KK QQ JJ, very Small range of hands which you are only ahead of two. He could have smooth called the flop, but I am sure the UTG would have pushed the turn. But this might have been a little easier to lay down only down 2500 vs 4000.