An instructive SSNL hand: How much to charge a flush draw

[AKQJ10]

Where possible I'll try to link interesting hands and discuss them here, but honestly it's easier just to go to the SSNL Digest thread and read all those. (I'm still working my way through them.)

AK OOP (200 6-max)

One reason I found this thread so interesting is because I had recently struggled with a somewhat similar hand that I posted here. Another, related reason, is because I'm still working on charging flush draws enough to prevent laying correct implied odds, but not so much that they (correctly) fold.

On this last topic, note in particular the comments by PurpleLight and BobboFittos about halfway down. Up to that point, reading all the recommendations of pushing the turn made me uneasy, for exactly this reason. Pushing the turn does give one the psychological satisfaction of not agonizing over a potential mistake calling the river! However, Harrington, Miller, and Sklansky (in HoHI, GSIH, TOP, respectively) all emphasize that you're "rooting"* for incorrect calls, not trying to push people and get them to fold an inferior hand.

So anyway, if this is helpful to beginners, I'll try to post a hand from there every once in a while. No promises on the frequency, heh.

*Apologies to Australian readers; it's Sklansky's word choice, not mine.

[Cooker]

At the lower limits that I play a lot, if I have a set or nut straight and suspect someone has a flush draw against me, I will move in immediately almost every time. If I have top pair I would have to be pretty sure I wasn't actually beaten, but if I become convinced that someone is drawing to a flush, I will move in no matter how ridiculous an overbet this is. You will surprised how often they call anyway with just the flush draw no matter how terrible the odds they are getting. Most people at the low limits will call ANY bet with a flush draw. Also, I have had the strange overbet called by suspicous PP and second pair hands as well. I guess against better players, this might not work so well, but most low limit players are going to the felt with 4 to a flush, so I simply take it all the way quickly and try to make their play a terrible mistake. This is just what I have been playing with lately, but I get called a ton in these spots.

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
...(I)f I become convinced that someone is drawing to a flush, I will move in no matter how ridiculous an overbet this is. You will surprised how often they call anyway with just the flush draw no matter how terrible the odds they are getting. Most people at the low limits will call ANY bet with a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree totally, but it's very game dependent. The idea is that you want to bet the maximum you think will get called, but in no case do you want to bet so little that the flush draw is getting correct implied odds (which includes the possibility that you'll pay off once the flush is made). The order of preference is:

<ul type="square">[*]Make a huge bet (e.g. all-in) and get called.[*] Make a substantial bet (e.g. 3/4 pot, but certainly enough to limit implied odds) and get called.[*] Make a substantial bet and get the draw to fold correctly.[*] (Worst option) Make an insubstantial bet and give the draw a cheap card to beat you.[/list]
For example, in Pacific 12c-25c I would agree that pushing is likely to succeed hence the most +EV; at Absolute 10c-25c the players are usually too sophisticated to call that, but often will call a pot-sized bet without the implied odds to do so.