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#1
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Re: pretty simple question
How many hands can you name that call this flop that hero is ahead of?
Hero has an ace, so that reduces the probability that villain has an overcard draw. Do you think villain calls this flop with QJ? I think you're getting checkraised here pretty often, and when you're not you are getting called by a better hand. You have way the worst of it on a bet here. Sure you have between 12 and 18 outs, but that still makes you a dog. I don't really care about giving a non-pair hand infinite odds on 4 outs. 4 outs isn't worth that much in a 3bb pot. We're usually behind and the pot is small. We don't have anything to protect, and buying a free showdown is almost worthless. |
#2
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Re: pretty simple question
[ QUOTE ]
How many hands can you name that call this flop that hero is ahead of? Hero has an ace, so that reduces the probability that villain has an overcard draw. Do you think villain calls this flop with QJ? I think you're getting checkraised here pretty often, and when you're not you are getting called by a better hand. You have way the worst of it on a bet here. Sure you have between 12 and 18 outs, but that still makes you a dog. I don't really care about giving a non-pair hand infinite odds on 4 outs. 4 outs isn't worth that much in a 3bb pot. We're usually behind and the pot is small. We don't have anything to protect, and buying a free showdown is almost worthless. [/ QUOTE ] omg on a blind steal? you want to check behind and fold to a bet? basically letting villain bluff you out with any 2 cards?? i think this is awful. he will call his BB and call a flop bet automatically with sooooo many hands just waiting to spike a pair or complete his 65 runner runner straight. i think this is an easy bet/call. |
#3
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Re: pretty simple question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How many hands can you name that call this flop that hero is ahead of? Hero has an ace, so that reduces the probability that villain has an overcard draw. Do you think villain calls this flop with QJ? I think you're getting checkraised here pretty often, and when you're not you are getting called by a better hand. You have way the worst of it on a bet here. Sure you have between 12 and 18 outs, but that still makes you a dog. I don't really care about giving a non-pair hand infinite odds on 4 outs. 4 outs isn't worth that much in a 3bb pot. We're usually behind and the pot is small. We don't have anything to protect, and buying a free showdown is almost worthless. [/ QUOTE ] omg on a blind steal? you want to check behind and fold to a bet? basically letting villain bluff you out with any 2 cards?? i think this is awful. he will call his BB and call a flop bet automatically with sooooo many hands just waiting to spike a pair or complete his 65 runner runner straight. i think this is an easy bet/call. [/ QUOTE ] i'm going to have to agree. i think any lag at 10/20 will bet this river no matter what it is if i check behind on the turn. |
#4
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Re: pretty simple question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How many hands can you name that call this flop that hero is ahead of? Hero has an ace, so that reduces the probability that villain has an overcard draw. Do you think villain calls this flop with QJ? I think you're getting checkraised here pretty often, and when you're not you are getting called by a better hand. You have way the worst of it on a bet here. Sure you have between 12 and 18 outs, but that still makes you a dog. I don't really care about giving a non-pair hand infinite odds on 4 outs. 4 outs isn't worth that much in a 3bb pot. We're usually behind and the pot is small. We don't have anything to protect, and buying a free showdown is almost worthless. [/ QUOTE ] omg on a blind steal? you want to check behind and fold to a bet? basically letting villain bluff you out with any 2 cards?? i think this is awful. he will call his BB and call a flop bet automatically with sooooo many hands just waiting to spike a pair or complete his 65 runner runner straight. i think this is an easy bet/call. [/ QUOTE ] i'm going to have to agree. i think any lag at 10/20 will bet this river no matter what it is if i check behind on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] If that's the case, then why not check the turn and call the river unimproved (or raise if you do improve)? |
#5
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Re: pretty simple question
I think it simply comes down to how often you are ahead.
If you are ahead, then betting is clearly right because you can protect your hand and give yourself the option of a free showdown or going an extra bet on the river if your draw comes in. I think the problem with checking to induce a bluff on the river is that if your draw comes in villain may not bet into you because the board is going to look pretty scary at that point (and he may not even call your bet). If you are behind, I think there's very little value in betting. The board is *so* dry that if villain caught a piece of it he's probably going to show it down. Getting CR'd isn't the end of the world, but we'd still rather not be. So are we ahead? I dunno, I guess it's really read-dependant. I think that villain would have to be an awfully big donk to call that flop with a draw, though. Maybe something like A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ? |
#6
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Re: pretty simple question
Maybe this is a completely crazy point of view, but I would never bet here. What, if villain folds? Then I will not have the possibility to river a royal flush. And I like to have one. This is worth the loss of equity in my eyes, if I don't bet the turn. But as I said, I'm crazy! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#7
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Re: pretty simple question
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How many hands can you name that call this flop that hero is ahead of? Hero has an ace, so that reduces the probability that villain has an overcard draw. Do you think villain calls this flop with QJ? I think you're getting checkraised here pretty often, and when you're not you are getting called by a better hand. You have way the worst of it on a bet here. Sure you have between 12 and 18 outs, but that still makes you a dog. I don't really care about giving a non-pair hand infinite odds on 4 outs. 4 outs isn't worth that much in a 3bb pot. We're usually behind and the pot is small. We don't have anything to protect, and buying a free showdown is almost worthless. [/ QUOTE ] omg on a blind steal? you want to check behind and fold to a bet? basically letting villain bluff you out with any 2 cards?? i think this is awful. he will call his BB and call a flop bet automatically with sooooo many hands just waiting to spike a pair or complete his 65 runner runner straight. i think this is an easy bet/call. [/ QUOTE ] i'm going to have to agree. i think any lag at 10/20 will bet this river no matter what it is if i check behind on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] If that's the case, then why not check the turn and call the river unimproved (or raise if you do improve)? [/ QUOTE ] if i did check behind here i would call UI. i like both lines, just wondering what the majority liked. |
#8
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Re: pretty simple question
Villain is calling the flop with 65? Is that supposed to be humorous? There is a *big* difference between being in this betting sequence on a nine high flop and being in it on a king high flop.
K high makes it an either/or flop. Either villain has something and will call a flop bet and see the river or villain has nothing and will fold. Assuming villain is on a backdoor 2 pair draw is not good hand reading. |
#9
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Re: pretty simple question
Unless you have some definite read on the guy that he'll frequently fold the turn, I'd check behind here too. There's a lot on this board that his action so far indicates that he could have hit. What are you worried about giving a free card to? Aren't you still drawing? I just see check-raises here way too often, and don't think a minimally-reasonable player would fold here.
If you think you have the best hand, call the river UI. |
#10
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Re: pretty simple question
The chance that he donates a full BB on the river with a bluff, stands to make you way more than you give away by checking if villian is behind in this small pot. Plus you have to call c/r.
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