AHH that JJ again

Roland32 · #1 08-25-2005, 07:22 PM

4th hand of tourney, I used up alot of time on the river almost folded. Which means I probably did not play it right. I would usualy bet bigger on Flop and turn but preflop call made me nervous. if he would of raised I prob would of folded pre river. But in the end I still ended with a big pot. But no read, thoughts?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (8 handed) converter

MP1 (t1300)
MP2 (t1770)
CO (t1290)
Button (t1490)
Hero (t1460)
BB (t1480)
UTG (t1500)
UTG+1 (t3210)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t80, 4 folds, Hero raises to t260, BB calls t240, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: (t600) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t200, BB calls t200.

Turn: (t1000) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t300, BB calls t300.

River: (t1600) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets t500, Hero calls t500.

Final Pot: t2600

Oluwafemi · #2 08-25-2005, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (t600) T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t600.

[/ QUOTE ]

can't stand the bet of 200 on the flop after raising 260. Jacks came be a very troublesome holding so i say bet alot early when you figure to be in the lead and take the pot know. betting 200 into a 600 flop can lead to disaster unless you're slow playing three of a kind, a flopped (rainbow) straight , or a flopped nut flush.

Morbo · #3 08-25-2005, 10:09 PM

Don't reraise with JJ preflop so early. What for?
Granted you did, bet 2/3 of the pot on the flop, and if you get called, check/fold the turn.

Roland32 · #4 08-26-2005, 10:00 AM

I cant imagine not reraising. Preflop what am I tring to accomplish by calling. Odds are a higher card will come on flop, then what fold to continuation bet? Even if they come low, what then, he raised from early position. By calling i do not give myself any chance to win the pot.

fisherman112 · #5 08-26-2005, 10:14 AM

what are you trying to accomplish by reraising instead? you either win a tiny pot or you get a caller, you're oop and have no idea if you're drawing to 2 outs on the flop.

this is not a cash game, your chips are limited. just because you think your hand has a positive expectation against the hand range of the ep raiser doesnt mean you should reraise.

there is nothing wrong with calling and check/folding if the flop comes AQ3. you want to keep the pot small preflop, so on those frequent occasions when you have an overpair you can find out where it is for less than your entire stack.

granted if this is posted from a 10+1 or something where people have absolutely no idea what they're doing than you're probably not dumping jj if there are no overs on the board. but im having a hard time putting hte villain on a hand you beat when bets the river.

Roland32 · #6 08-26-2005, 10:44 AM

Back to the preflop reraise. The original raiser folded. This is information and a chance at the pot. If he calls that is information and sets me up for a cont bet. By calling I am already giving up on the hand. What does this enable me to do other than play weak tight. Does it gain a shot at the pot, does it give me insight on the players hand? I cant imagine this being the correct way to play.

Also if flop comes all small cards and I lead out and he raises, do I fold? I hope not, cause I constantly raise a caller from the blinds, if they lead out at a nonthreatening board.

#7 08-26-2005, 12:58 PM

No one has mentioned what hand they put the villian on.

Cold-called a big re-raise preflop from the BB:

Without a read, the range of hands he does this with IMO include:

AK, 1010 (loose), JJ (rare), QQ or KK. Most people would reraise (or push) with AA here.

Calls a small lead bet from the raiser on the flop (T 3 2):

Doesn't really rule out any of the above hands. Could be slow-playing top-set on a board with no draws. Could figure pairing his A or K would make the best hand and that he has the right odds to call here. I would think he would reraise KK.

Calls another small bet on the turn:

Not much more info.

Bet on the river:

Clear value bet. I think my JJ are beaten for sure. no way he'd bet with unimproved AK.

Lots of lessons here and more proof that JJ is a bitch to play. If you agree with my range of preflop hands then you really don't know if you are ahead or behind. The 200 bet on the flop will not give you this info, I bet bigger here. The only hand he would likely fold to a bigger bet is AK and MAYBE QQ. If he raises, I fold and if he smooth-calls, I get very suspicious and check the turn. I don't like going broke with JJ. It's great having an over pair on the flop, but when someone calls a big preflop reraise, his overpair just might be better than yours.

Roland32 · #8 08-26-2005, 01:22 PM

good post fatman That was also my thought process suring the hand. My bets in a way were a plea to be raised so I could fold. I bet again on turn in case of AK in which he would prob fold. The river I wanted to fold badly but called in the end.

By the way he Had TT and flopped a set