Set vs. set

#1 12-21-2005, 01:51 PM

So, the other night I played for about 4 hours and made a set 4 times on the flop. All 4 times they ended up getting beaten by a higher set. This got me thinking. Is there ever a point where you should stop betting a set when there are no straight or flush draws on the board? On most of these hands I just kept raising because I figured they had two pair or an overpair or something. What do you think?

Jaran · #2 12-21-2005, 01:53 PM

"If you don't lose a lot with a set..." blah, blah, blah

Give me a read and I might slow down, but not generally.

-Jaran

Entity · #3 12-21-2005, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"If you don't lose a lot with a set..." blah, blah, blah

Give me a read and I might slow down, but not generally.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

I pretty much agree. Watched someone lose 10BB to me HU with set over set last night, that was sick. He should have only lost 8 I think, but it's pretty close.

Rob

#4 12-21-2005, 02:52 PM

Here is one of the hands:

PokerRoom 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: degroot is with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, villain calls, degroot calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, villain calls, degroot raises, SB calls, villain 3-bets, degroot caps, SB calls, calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, villain bets, degroot raises, SB calls, villain 3-bets, degroot caps, SB calls, villain calls.

River: (19.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, villain bets, degroot calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 20.50 BB

Results in white below: 
villain has 9s 9d (three of a kind, nines).
CO doesn't show.

Xhad · #5 12-21-2005, 03:18 PM

I think you played this hand fine. That flop call/reraise is a very strong move; I can't recall ever seeing that not be a set unless it was a flush draw trying not to knock people out. I'd still cap the flop but I might slow down on the turn 3-bet and I definitely call the river.

bozlax · #6 12-21-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, villain bets, degroot raises, SB calls, villain 3-bets, degroot caps, SB calls, villain calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, the flop is capped and he bets out when an overcard falls on the turn. Villan didn't raise preflop, so I think AA/KK/QQ is pretty much out. You raise and he 3-bets. Do you think he's playing A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]?

As somebody said in their post, tho, I think the most you could have saved on this hand is 1BB by not capping the turn.

Eeegah · #7 12-21-2005, 04:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As somebody said in their post, tho, I think the most you could have saved on this hand is 1BB by not capping the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain cost Hero a lot of money by not raising preflop with 99 [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

He didn't even flop quads. He sucks.

#8 12-21-2005, 05:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the most you could have saved on this hand is 1BB by not capping the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

kiemo · #9 12-21-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

As somebody said in their post, tho, I think the most you could have saved on this hand is 1BB by not capping the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I pretty much thought this exact same sentitment.

If your feeling pretty weak and havent seen table/villian play nuts like this ever you might save another BB by not 3 betting the turn.

Shillx · #10 12-21-2005, 05:30 PM

Interesting hand. Not too complex, but a lot of the stuff that you should be watching for could be hard to catch if you are trying to multitask.

- The flop call-reraise can narrow his range quite a bit. Start it off at 2-pair+ and some big/combo draws (maybe add a big overpair if you know they could do this kind of thing). You can then eliminate hands based on how loose or tight he is. So would he ever limp UTG+1 with a hand like 9-trey or 7-trey? How about 97? You would add in the nut flush draw and maybe a combo draw like T8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

- When he bets the turn, you can get rid of the nut flush draw.* T8 just made a straight so that is a bit worrisome. Really the only hand you can beat here is 97 or maybe a slowplayed AA (assuming he doesn't limp crap UTG+1). Your equity against a reasonable range is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 30-35% when you allow for some over zealous flush draws and such.

So calling down the turn bet is clearly an option in this spot. Raising and then calling down a 3-bet looks like an option here as well. You at lost at least 1 bb that you didn't need to in this hand, but it is very easy to play a hand this good this way when you don't watch the action carefully and devote your full attention to making good decisions.

Brad

* - This isn't true as you move up as a turn bet is oftentimes the best way to freeze the action when you have a draw. When you call-reraise the flop and then check the turn, it tips off your hand as a draw and good players will jam that street with strong made hands to get the most from you. When you come right out betting, your equity increases in their minds and turns some of their raises into calls. It is kinda a moot point since you capped the flop and he still bet the turn, but it is something to think about.