A4s, good and bad flops

Here are two hands where I have A4s. Please comment on the post flop play first, rather than whether I should play these hands or fold them pf (I want to discuss that as well, but after). First hand, Villain is 15/9/1 over 160 hands. I don't connect at all on FD but hit the A, which is not helpful, as I am against a PF raiser and don't know if my A is good. I know just calling to SD can't be good and I don't want to fold on the flop as PF raiser could easily have any pkt pair 99 to KK as well as a strong A so I raise intending to re evaluate on the turn.
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed)
[b]Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, SB raises, BB calls, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

[b]Flop: (8 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.
Not happy with the villain 3 bet or MP2 calling so will fold turn UI
Turn: (8.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, MP2 folds.
Other than folding PF, is there another line that makes more sense.

Second hand, again I have A4s, this time I get a very favorable flop, get my FD and a gutshot. I think my line makes sense, but would appreciate comments. Villain is 17/11/2.25 over 110 hands
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, BB calls, Hero raises, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB folds.

River: (8.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.20 BB

I was pretty sure I was beat here, but had to play for 1 more bet, but I was right as villain turned over AJ.
As far as pre flop, as it is, I don't play a lot of hands (I am 18/8 pf over 30K hands). I play Party 5/10 and it certainly isn't like Miller talks about in SSHE. In general, at most 3 to 4 players see the flop, and quite often, if you limp in EP or MP, you get raised by a LP more often than not. So low Axs is not a very good hand to play in EP or even MP. However, if I don't play those, and if I also don't play low pp with no limpers before me and K9s, K8s and Q9s are also low EV from MP with no previous limpers and a good chance of getting isolated, I'm going to be playing 12 to 13% pf which has to be too low. Any suggestions.

any chance someone can help here? thanks

[ackid]

I dont like your flop raise in hand one. I think sb has you beat with a bigger ace and with no draws you will have to spike a 4 on the turn to win. Pre flop in this hand is a fold.

On the second hand you have a good draw so why not bet it out and find out where your at? On the turn you bet but he still called so a/k is out. So most likely your behind to AJ/AQ? Preflop is a raise 1st in here.

Hand 1: Looks good to me.

Hand 2: Flop is good, especially because you'd love to take this down without a showdown. Turn is standard after c/ring the flop.

In these types of games, limp less and raise more. If there's a decent chance of picking up the blinds or winning pots uncontested postflop, then tend to raise a lot of your hands from MP2 and later when opening. Only limp in early position with hands that are strong enough to see a flop in a raised pot, yet not strong enough to raise. Suited aces and low PPs play well in the looser of your games, but very rarely from early position.

Also defend your blinds more often.

[Pharity]

Generally, you should not openlimp from middle position. If the players behind you are *very loose passive there may be exeptions though. But i would fold these hands PF. Change the 4 to an 8s/9s or higher and i may raise if the players behind me are tight and not very tough.


Hand 1:
On the flop i think the raise is good as you could easily have the best hand. But when there is a coldcaller behind you and SB 3-bets you OOP, you are most likely badly beat here. You should fold to the 3-bet even though you have 1:15. Your 4d is tainted and even if you hit a non diamond 4 you still have to survive the river. And of course you cannot know if MP2 is sandbagging. So you have only like 1.75 outs in this spot. Clear fold on the flop. Don't bother about the image thing.

Hand 2:
I think your flop line is OK here. If you think CO would raise with overcards it may be better to bet. Then you will possibly free up some A outs and may win if a 4 hits. If you don't think he would raise i think a c/r is good since you have upto 15 cards for top pair or better. And of course you should bet the turn in that case. The question is whether to bet the river or not. This is player dependent, and considering this guy is TAG i think i would bet/fold. The pot is too big to c/f and he will call with more hands than he will bet, like smaller PPs. I may be wrong about this though.

Hand 1, I think you are right, I should have just folded to the 3 bet, as there was almost no card on the turn that would keep me in the pot.
Hand 2, my thinking was I had 9 outs to the flush and 3 more non diamond outs to the gutshot, so although I do think CO would raise my bet, I didnt' want to blast other player out of the pot yet. By check raising, I got 2 bets from each player, so I accomplished what I wanted. I agree, betting may have gotten a weak A to fold there but I thought I had enough outs to not worry too much about that.

[Nick C]

Hand 1: Postflop looks good to me. I think the board is too coordinated in the limping zone and drawish in this not-small pot to let MP2 hang around on the flop for 1 small bet. But the small blind's 3-bet does indicate you're probably in trouble. You'll run into a few people who play QQ this way, but his numbers don't really suggest he's one of them.

Also, he'll occasionally have a hand like K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but I don't think that will be the case often enough.

Hand 2: I think the flop checkraise is good. You have a lot of potential outs and should have an equity edge here, versus two opponents.

Sometimes CO will 3-bet and drive BB out, but he's most likely to do that with an overpair, and you're approximately a coinflip anyway at this point versus, say, QQ, with your flush draw, gutshot, and overcard.

The turn is complicated.

Some advantages to betting:

(1) It disguises your hand, which could be useful if you catch on the river.

(2) You set up a potential steal on the river, if CO calls with AJ/AQ and BB folds.

(3) If you get two calls, then although pairing your ace will probably do you no good, you're still not losing all that much money on your turn bet, with your flush draw and gutshot.

Disadvantages to betting:

(1) That king could easily have hit CO, and if it did, you may get raised, which may drive out BB. (You'll also likely get raised if CO happens to have AA, KK, or TT and decided, in response to your flop checkraise, to wait and pop the turn.)

(2) The king cut into your folding equity, since now CO has more reason to peel again with AQ/AJ. (And although there's some chance CO was waiting to pop the turn with QQ/JJ, I doubt he'll fold now just because of an overcard that fell on the turn. I guess maybe he'll give up a hand like 88, though.)

On the whole, I think I like the turn lead, but I also think I'd prefer if a card like the 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] had fallen and I could lead on that.

On the river, I wonder if a bet-fold would be better. You're more likely to get paid off by KQ/KJ that way. But there is some risk involved if Villain is a player who might find a bluff-raise.

As for preflop, I've pretty much stopped playing low suited aces in EP/MP at Party 5/10.

[UCLAseetoK]

Hand 1: Isn't this a case where we should not be raising the flop due to very marginal pot equity? If we really believe we have the best hand here, wouldn't a turn raise be better given the pot size. Also, fold pf.

Hand 2: Looks fine, but fold pf.

You should not be open limping Ax suited garbage in EP. Like you even said, these games tend to get raised from the back more often. There, you've even answered your own question as to how to increae your vpip.