5/10 QQ?

[W. Deranged]

Dano,

I think you're confusing some concepts here.

The fact that we can't protect our hand against a good draw is one of the reasons why we wouldn't want to raise the flop. We'd like to protect against A and K holdings here, but a hand like ATs or something might call two cold anyway thinking he has two live overcards.

The turn will greatly define our equity. A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A, or K turn makes it very unlikely that we have the best hand any longer. A blank turn greatly increase the chance we have the best hand. Ramming and jamming the flop when our protection possibilities aren't great and our equity is murky is probably not the best idea.

We really can't call a three-bet on this turn. I've advocated raising the turn, but if we get three-bet we are almost certainly behind. If BB three-bets, we are up against exactly AA and maybe KK the vast majority of the time. If anyone else does, it is almost always a set or a 9. Many river cards can beat us anyway, and we won't have the odds to continue further at that point. There is the outside chance that we get three-bet and everyone calls and so we're getting around 20-1 on our turn call, in which case peeling probably is fine but that's a pretty unlikely scenario. Usually we'll be getting more like 15-1 and it's a pretty straightforward fold.

Thanks for the reply and criticism.

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The fact that we can't protect our hand against a good draw is one of the reasons why we wouldn't want to raise the flop. We'd like to protect against A and K holdings here, but a hand like ATs or something might call two cold anyway thinking he has two live overcards.


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I think there is still a case for raising on the flop.

1. Don't we want hands like ATs to call two cold thinking they have live outs?

2. There are many hands that would have odds to call the flop for one bet that would not for 2 bets, such as pocket pairs, or a hand with one live overcard.

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The turn will greatly define our equity. A , A, or K turn makes it very unlikely that we have the best hand any longer. A blank turn greatly increase the chance we have the best hand.


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I do and don't agree with you. If AK and the like are in the 3-betting range of BB, than I agree, that an A or K lowers our equity. However, if only Pocket pairs are in the range, it actually increases our equity a little. i.e. an A on the turn makes AA-KK holdings less likely and JJ-TT holdings more likely.

I think calling a 3-bet is close. The call would depend on if UTG or Button was still in. If it was heads up with BB, he would only need to 3-bet with worse hands (JJ, TT) about 10% of the time to make a call down profitable. Based on the AF of 2 you are probably right that a call is spewing. I don't play 5/10, so I don't know the 'trickiness' of the players. I would bet your read is better.

[Jake (The Snake)]

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3. Brett can tell you what line I'll advocate on the turn: Raise and take a free showdown.

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I think there are many river cards that we could bet again for value (based on action), no?

[bobhalford]

I myself probably would have raised the flop to see if BB calls or raises. But just calling maybe makes more sense. Generally I like to see where I am at on the cheap streets. The problem is that if we call the flop and then raise the turn, we are vulnerable to getting 3-bet which costs us more money when we are behind. In order to raise the turn you may have to be willing to fold to a 3-bet. BB may do this with TT/JJ however and maybe even a flush draw, hoping you have AK. Another problem with not raising on either the flop or turn is that it keeps button in, who may have a suspicious K or A that we lose to on the turn or river when BB has JJ. Tough hand.