I folded AKs on the bubble tonight pre-flop. I felt dirty.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
What I find interesting is the difference between pockets and AKs here using some rough calculations with eastbays program. If he is pushing any two then AKs is a very bad, -1.7% call but 10s is an easy +1.7% call. If you tighten up the range a little and throw out the complete trash then JJ is a marginal +.1% call and AKs rises to -1.3%.

[/ QUOTE ]

as has been noticed before, just cause something is +ev in the calculator does not make it a "call" and just caus it's -ev does not make it a "fold."

also, these results shouldn't be that interesting to you.

citanul

also "a -1.7% call" is hardly a very bad call, and a +1.7% is not an "easy call"

like i said, i knew this thread disgusted me.

[Mike Cuneo]

reraise

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
reraise

[/ QUOTE ]

i can't decide if you're sarcastic or retared.

either way you're useless.

citanul

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What I find interesting is the difference between pockets and AKs here using some rough calculations with eastbays program. If he is pushing any two then AKs is a very bad, -1.7% call but 10s is an easy +1.7% call. If you tighten up the range a little and throw out the complete trash then JJ is a marginal +.1% call and AKs rises to -1.3%.

[/ QUOTE ]

as has been noticed before, just cause something is +ev in the calculator does not make it a "call" and just caus it's -ev does not make it a "fold."

also, these results shouldn't be that interesting to you.

citanul

also "a -1.7% call" is hardly a very bad call, and a +1.7% is not an "easy call"

like i said, i knew this thread disgusted me.

[/ QUOTE ]

dude what are you talking about. 1.7% is pretty huge.

[DasLeben]

Personally (without running the numbers or looking at the other posts in this thread), I consider this a clear-cut fold. That said, I'm supremely confident SGA will agree.

Smallie has 0.5BB and takes the blind for his whole stack next hand. There is no reason to bust here, unless you have aces.

[citanul]

i dunno man, when we're looking at say, -1.7% being the difference in equity between folding (147 in equity) and calling (138 in equity) we're not actually talking about very much. 1.7% of the prize pool yes, is nicish money. but.

but there's variance to consider, which is often a consideration for say, everyone. and there's things like how easy it has been/will be for you to steal now and in the money. most push with any two spots in the money at large blind sizes and a decently tight calling range for the bb from the sb are worth a very similar amount of money. and they have the added bonus of you have already gotten into the money.

i'm not a huge fan of sneaking into the money or anything, but if i knew that i could routinely give up a buck or two of sklansky bux to assure myself a huge(r) itm%, i'd do that and be happy knowing that i can outplay my opponents in the money as well as out of the money.

i guess my point is that on an equity of say $150, $8 isn't much. and if you throw $8 out the window once in order to make sure you get into the money, assure yourself $100, likely $150, and possibly $250, i don't think most people run it out.

citanul

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
i guess my point is that on an equity of say $150, $8 isn't much. and if you throw $8 out the window once in order to make sure you get into the money, assure yourself $100, likely $150, and possibly $250, i don't think most people run it out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Guess it depends what your goal is then. If you want to maximize ROI, you take whatever +$EV situations you can get. Pass a couple up if you want to reduce variance.

As long as the player understands that he's passing up a +$EV spot, and why he's passing it up, it's fine. "Optimal" play doesn't mean the same to everyone.

Btw, you get the histories I sent you?

[imported_cocarondelle]

Hi.

I don t see how a winning coin flip with your AKs is going to give you more EV+ (regarding first place) if you compare to the disaster of being out of the $.

Anyway, good fold for me.
Don t feel dirty... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

cocarondelle

[45suited]

With the shortstack so low, I don't see how calling is even a consideration. Even if Button is pushing with any two (as he should), you are only 70-30 over 72o. I get the whole "double up and play for first" thing, but this is one of these times where you just gotta fold to the bigstack. There is a REASON why he should push any two - because he knows that you would need a monster to call if you're smart. This is a no-brainer here with shortstack at 1/2 BB. If I KNEW that button had 72o, I'm still not calling here. (Edit: If I couldn't see his cards, I'd call with aces or kings)

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i guess my point is that on an equity of say $150, $8 isn't much. and if you throw $8 out the window once in order to make sure you get into the money, assure yourself $100, likely $150, and possibly $250, i don't think most people run it out.

[/ QUOTE ]
Guess it depends what your goal is then. If you want to maximize ROI, you take whatever +$EV situations you can get. Pass a couple up if you want to reduce variance.

As long as the player understands that he's passing up a +$EV spot, and why he's passing it up, it's fine. "Optimal" play doesn't mean the same to everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

well yeah, you're agreeing with one of my points, and then kinda sorta missing another.

while it definitely does matter what your goals are, it's not true that a player seeking to make the most money possible will take every +ev situation given to them. it is important to sometimes pass +ev situations to allow yourself to take +ev situations that are plus-er ev later.

no, i didn't get any hhs since that first one. i hate yahoo. gimme a minute.

citanul