pumping the pot with an overpair

[jt1]

This is from a recent post:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP caps, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (16.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ,5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP raises, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls, MP caps, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

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Say that UTG and MP are both tight passive. Hero estimates there is a 75% chance that he is behind and 25% chance that he is ahead. Should he 3 bet?

Though there are 3 others in the pot and he has a 25% chance that he is currently ahead, you have to consider that he will get drawn out on more often then he will draw out. In other wrods his chances of winning aren't 25%. Should he still 3-bet?


Now change the scenario slightly and say that UTG is an unknown and MP is tight passive. Should he 3-bet?

What if MP is the unknown and UTG is tight passive?

Anyone care to take a shot? For what it is worth, I think that 3-betting if either UTG or MP are unknown is correct but if both are tight passive then I think Hero should just call.

[Peter Harris]

too many permutations for my poor little braiiiiiiin...

okay.

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Say that UTG and MP are both tight passive. Hero estimates there is a 75% chance that he is behind and 25% chance that he is ahead. Should he 3 bet?

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Uhh i say yes, since it's 4 handed, you're putting 25% of the bets in here. UTG doesn't look like a hand that beats you and seeing MP cap defines the hand better than calling a raise. I think button is a donkey on a draw.

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Though there are 3 others in the pot and he has a 25% chance that he is currently ahead, you have to consider that he will get drawn out on more often then he will draw out. In other words his chances of winning aren't 25%. Should he still 3-bet?

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I think so. What makes you think MP has KK or AA? AKs, JJ and AKo are usually PF caps or close to caps from tight passive. I think by only calling the first raise on the flop it does not help us deduce whether MP is on KK or AA. After the PF AND flop cap by a TPP MP, then we can begin to consider it.

This is, i think, a worthy situation of 3-betting for info.

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Now change the scenario slightly and say that UTG is an unknown and MP is tight passive. Should he 3-bet?

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still yeah, UTG hasn't shown us dick.

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What if MP is the unknown and UTG is tight passive?

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even more interested in betting as our range is bigger against an unknown than vs a known TPP.

I don't believe flat calling the first flop raise really helps us; by 3betting and seeing MP, as a TPP, cap, we are given more information than being raised on a costly street.

After this cap by a TP-P, i will c/c a bet on the turn to spike a Q (with odds). I will reevaluate on the river before c/f with an overpair, although if MP is still all guns blazing on the turn i'll consider it.