Good Question For Catholics and Others

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do we know anything really? We are all just puppets in a game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Punch and Judy, to Their Audience

Our puppets strings are hard to see,
So we perceive ourselves as free,
Convinced that no mere objects could
Behave in terms of bad and good.

To you, we mannequins seem less
than live, because our consciousness
is that of dummies, made to sit
on laps of gods and mouth their wit;

Are you, our transcendental gods,
likewise dangled from your rods,
and need, to show spontaneous charm,
some higher god's inserted arm?

We seem to form a nested set,
With each the next one's marionette,
Who, if you asked him, would insist,
that he's the last ventriloquist.

-Theodore Melnechuk

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] nice quoting

chez

[Peter666]

How would a Big Bang prove anything? Even if true the Big Bang had to come from a cause. Eventually everything comes from an uncaused cause, or God. There can be no such thing as existence without it.

[ QUOTE ]
How would a Big Bang prove anything? Even if true the Big Bang had to come from a cause. Eventually everything comes from an uncaused cause, or God. There can be no such thing as existence without it.

[/ QUOTE ]

A higher-dimension universe, perhaps. One that has always existed and is not subject to the physical laws of our "sub-universe". This is one of several natural explanations -- the real answer is we don't know ... yet.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think the opinion of Penn and his ilk should be taken more seriously than certain religious figures. Professional skeptics earn their money trying to prove things wrong, so they always have a vested interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is that they don't claim to have divine revelation in that they can't be wrong. Actually, they say they can be wrong, so we should be skeptical of what they say also.

[imported_luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Eventually everything comes from an uncaused cause, or God. There can be no such thing as existence without it.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no evidence that I've been able to track down that there needs to be an initial cause. With time being merely our way of reducing space-time into something meaningful to us, it's hard to see why space-time itself, in however many dimensions it ends up existing needs to be restricted by our before-after thinking about one aspect of it that we concocted

luckyme.

[Peter666]

"There is no evidence that I've been able to track down that there needs to be an initial cause."

And what CAUSES you to think that?

The time and space dimension is not applicable in a philosophic debate, only a scientific one which minimizes a concept.

[Peter666]

"I don't mind being in the game. It's the puppet part that would take all the fun out of it."

I agree. When men sit and ponder at the free will of their actions, I'm banging their wives.

[Rubeskies]

I'm posting blind here.

I'm not religous but from a logic standpoint, consider this.

God supposedly created life. We can artificially create life. Do the people who believe in God believe any less that God originally created life?

My point being that just because humans can do some of the same things God supposedly can, doesn't mean the people who believe in God would be shaken by that revelation.

[Bork]

Well they don't believe it less strongly, but they would if they were rational.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
How would a Big Bang prove anything? Even if true the Big Bang had to come from a cause. Eventually everything comes from an uncaused cause, or God. There can be no such thing as existence without it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't this an example of one of your miracles, which means you just don't know.

chez