When religion and morality fail... who ya gonna call?

Mankind has, for the last couple thousand years, accepted morality, mostly in the form of religion. Note the paralells between religious texts and our judicial system (the 10 commandments, for example). This has certainly not been it's only influence but it is apparent that it has had considerable scope.

This was not bad! It is not bad still. It is important that we act in a moral manner (or, in a manner that so far morality has made us act) for the most crass of reasons, our society would not function as well without morality. Societies that don't function well go the way of the Dodo.

Unfortunately, both morality and religion rely on faith. This is not to say they are incorrect but they are incompatible with a belief system arising entirely from reason and logic alone. They must be believed inherent; logic and reason will not allow this.

What then is our answer? Where do we turn to for decisions on how to act? I am not very familiar with Social Contract, is this what Locke was talking about? Philosophy seems like it could provide answers. What are they?

[chezlaw]

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Mankind has, for the last couple thousand years, accepted morality, mostly in the form of religion. Note the paralells between religious texts and our judicial system (the 10 commandments, for example). This has certainly not been it's only influence but it is apparent that it has had considerable scope.

This was not bad! It is not bad still. It is important that we act in a moral manner (or, in a manner that so far morality has made us act) for the most crass of reasons, our society would not function as well without morality. Societies that don't function well go the way of the Dodo.

Unfortunately, both morality and religion rely on faith. This is not to say they are incorrect but they are incompatible with a belief system arising entirely from reason and logic alone. They must be believed inherent; logic and reason will not allow this.

What then is our answer? Where do we turn to for decisions on how to act? I am not very familiar with Social Contract, is this what Locke was talking about? Philosophy seems like it could provide answers. What are they?

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what makes you think morality depends on faith? I'm fairly moral and its not because of faith in anything.

chez

How is morality based on faith? Also, I disagree that morality is incompatible with a belief system arising entirely from reason and logic alone. It requires some very basic assumptions, but I don't think this is the same as faith.

[tylerdurden]

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Unfortunately, both morality and religion rely on faith. This is not to say they are incorrect but they are incompatible with a belief system arising entirely from reason and logic alone. They must be believed inherent; logic and reason will not allow this.

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Wrong. See "natural law" and "praxeology".

PS, How long before you get your third *?

Faith is one way of validating morality, but it's certainly not the only one, and it's probably a secondary factor. Most fundamentally, morality makes rational/logical sense as a set of tools that allow us to propogate as a species. Our social structures and thus our morals clearly have a utilitarian purpose in ensuring our survival.

Because morality is illogical.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Give an example

[chezlaw]

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Because morality is illogical.

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I agee that the main cause of morality is illogical but that doesn't make it faith based. People are moral because they want to be, which is emotional not faith based.

and they want to be moral because we are evolved (or designed if thats your bag) to care about others.

chez

[evil_twin]

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Because morality is illogical.

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We are not Vulcans. My morality stems from empathy for others. Thus, emotions are one force for morality.

Why is morality illogical? I don't understand this, it seems highly logical to me - it builds a social framework that's desirable and useful, at a personal level as well as for society at large...