20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan

[riverboatking]

ok the table is pretty weak with the exception of villian (different from first post) who is a very aggressive player who likes to make big moves.

i'm in the BB w/89h and ~9K i have the table covered.
MP1 is a very weak loose player with ~3K.
MP2 is a pretty straightfoward player with ~3K.
villian has ~6K and is on the button.

three callers SB folds i check.

flop A-9-10 two hearts.
checked around.

turn As (A-9-10).

i lead for $300, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, villian raises to $1200.

i reraise to 3K.

thoughts, comments.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
i lead for $300, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, villian raises to $1200.

i reraise to 3K.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it. If a move were to be made, I think the flop would have been the time to make it.

The only time I would even consider this type of move is if (a) I can read villian well enough to know he doesn't have that strong of a hand and (b) if he's capable of laying down when being played back at.

As it is, your draw is weakened by the turn and it looks like you were trying to make up for the lack of action on the flop by going gonzo on the turn.

Garland

[coltrane]

nh, button most likely has nothing, if MP2 had anything he really liked he would've raised....your raise should win the pot most times....

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]

The only time I would even consider this type of move is if (a) I can read villian well enough to know he doesn't have that strong of a hand

[/ QUOTE ]


how strong of a hand can he have if he checked the flop on the button?

[aggie]

Well played!

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it. If a move were to be made, I think the flop would have been the time to make it.

[/ QUOTE ]

1.) how can i make a move on the flop when i'm first to act and its checked around?
2.) on the flop i have no reason to believe the field is weak because i haven't seen them act yet, its only after they all check such a draw heavy board that i sense weakness.

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I would even consider this type of move is if (a) I can read villian well enough to know he doesn't have that strong of a hand and (b) if he's capable of laying down when being played back at.

[/ QUOTE ]

it doesn't take much hand reading skill to be able to say villian is weak. what possible hand can he check with on that flop? can he check a set? two pair? even a lone ace?

and what about MP1 and MP2 what range of hands do you put them on after they check that flop then just call on the turn?

now think about what i'm representing. i check the flop looking to checkraise, that doesn't work out so know i lead on the turn...get two callers and a raise, then i reraise...i'm the only one in the hand that could reasonable have checked the flop and now it must look like a have monster...no?

[jkinetic]

Just curious, if villain pushed, would you have:
a. felt committed
b. still felt you had the best hand

or both?

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
Just curious, if villain pushed, would you have:
a. felt committed
b. still felt you had the best hand

or both?

[/ QUOTE ]

i really put villian on a hand like QJ or 78 so i probably would have called thinking i had the best hand.
villian was the black guy in seat three, so you know he is both a good player as well as someone very capable of making big moves.

and on the flop it looked like he was thinking about betting then decided against it at the last second, which led me to believe he had a drawing hand.

also the size of his raise led me to believe he didn't want to commit himself...with that much money in the pot he was still offering a decent price to drawing hands and with four way action he had to assume there were a number of those out.

[ezratei]

I can understand your thinking here against the villian ... but what about MP1 and MP2? To be honest I would be more worried about their holdings.

You describe them as weak, MP1 as very weak loose, what if they made the "mistake" of checking the flop with AT, A9, TT or 99. I don't play at these limits but in the 2/5, 5/10 game I play I would say a huge component of what makes the bad players bad is that they slow-play every huge hand they flop, no matter what the board looks like ... they do this everytime. Now on the turn they [censored] their pants and think "oh, better slow play again, don't want to lose a possible river bet".

You might have the villian in a situation where he can't possibly call ... but what if you just handed 3k to MP1 or MP2?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I think this is a fancy play that's actually good in theory. I've yet to ever try something like this =p.