One of my problem areas + example hand

[olavfo]

I am pretty sure I don't extract enough value on the river and that I tend to check/call or check behind too much.

Here is one such hand played earlier today which also illustrates a general situation I am uncomfortable with, namely big underpairs with an ace on board, especially when I am out of position.
What's the standard line here? (1st orbit, no reads.)

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ?

Comments appreciated.

olavfo

[Bigdaddydvo]

I check and give a busted flush draw the chance to bet. You're either way ahead or way behind.

[Bokonnon]

I've recently (after reading SSH) started value betting the river more, and, so far at leat, it's been noticably profitable.

Even so, this, for me, is borderline, and probably a check-call.

Even assuming you're ahead (which I think you are likely to be), is it likely he'll call if he's beaten? I think most of the time here a call = an ace, and you're not giving up a lot by checking (since I don't think any A is likely to fold). This play also has the added advantage that it might induce a bluff by a hand that wouldn't have called.

Again, I think this is borderline. If checking is a mistake, I don't think it can possibly be a big one. (If I'm wrong on this I'd love to be set straight.)

[thesharpie]

Unless the guy is very very loose, the only thing I can see him calling you with is some pocket pair. Would he even call preflop with K6 or K9 against an UTG raiser when he's not sure anyone else is along for the ride?

Then again I've been playing at some shittier sites than party (when it comes to players) so perhaps I'm too used to semi tight play, even though I'm playing at the same limit.

I check call this river for mine and the above reasons.

[DoctorDrew]

My line is my usual line. I bet for value. There are a lot of hands you beat that will call you here, that will not bet here.

A typical busted flush won't bet here. You need to know you are up against a smart player for this play to be effective. If he turns over Ax--now you have a read.

Might be a good idea to observe before you sit down with your money. Its easy at party as PT will download hands you observe and you can get some info this way.

[olavfo]

[ QUOTE ]
My line is my usual line. I bet for value. There are a lot of hands you beat that will call you here, that will not bet here.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's the thing. They will call with unbelievable junk. The consensus seems to be check-call, but at Party I have seen so much calling with bottom pair that I feel I give up too much by checking here (which I nearly always do, and also did this time).

Anyway, Villain checked behind me and turned over 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] for a busted flush (and a small pair).

olavfo

[Chris Daddy Cool]

value bet this river, they will call down with pure shyt.

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
value bet this river, they will call down with pure shyt.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup

[einbert]

[ QUOTE ]
I check and give a busted flush draw the chance to bet. You're either way ahead or way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way ahead/way behind only applies when there are more cards to come.

[toss]

I love this advice. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]