Discussion about poker for a living

whittiphil · #1 10-12-2005, 04:03 AM

Ok so here goes.

I started playing poker about 3 months ago, lost a couple of hundred, but then built my bankroll up to about $2.4k. I'm quite sure that with rakeback + bonuses I can make $16/hour quite easily just playing NL$25. In New Zealand dollars that is $22 per hour with no tax (no gambling tax in NZ). After tax most people my age get half that.

I have exams right now, they finish 29th October, then I have no job for summer. It would be stupid of me to not play poker right? Any job I get will be boring, won't pay as well, and I will have to work 5 days a week all summer. If I play poker, it will be somewhat boring (but more fun than data entry etc), will pay better, and I can choose when I work.

Is there a downside to playing poker this summer instead of working? I feel there must be one, but honestly, if I put some serious poker thinking + playing in, I could double that hourly rate by the end of summer, then I'd be [censored] sweet for the rest of next year at law school.

It seems some players develop a love/hate thing with poker after a while, anyone else end up like that after a lot of play?

If it matters, I live at home at the moment, planning to move out next year, and my parents are pretty cool with me playing poker, so it doesn't adversely affect my life that way - although if I'm playing close to 40 hours a week they might revise their opinion.

Thoughts?

Malachii · #2 10-12-2005, 04:10 AM

Definitely play poker for the summer. It can be very stressful, but it also allows you to set your own hours and do something you enjoy. You should be more inclined to play if you already have a fairly well established circle of friends though, if you'd like to meet more people then a job has obvious social benefits. But honestly, as a summer job poker is awesome... you can set your own hours, you don't have to wake up early in the morning for it, you can make more money, and if you do well you can move up to bigger games.

whittiphil · #3 10-12-2005, 04:13 AM

I think you're right. I have plenty of friends and I generally don't like the office environment I used to work in... the money is too good too. Plus, I want to be able to tell my kids I was a professional poker player at one stage of my life [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

wtfsvi · #4 10-12-2005, 04:30 AM

My experience with last summer (That's the only poker summer I've seen. I didn't even know the rules of holdem a year ago. That kinda scares me.) is that the games got slightly tougher. Maybe the fish are out doing fun stuff while you and other winning players are trying to make a summer job out of it, resulting in tougher games. Another reason might be that the yearly autumn-effect of the wsop has worn off. It's not like the games are tough of course.

There are definitly downsides to having poker as a summer job. First of all, you might lose or break even over the summer. I had another job last summer, and that's likely good as I would be seriously depressed if my 2k downswing was all I had to show for the vacation. (Maybe I could have been about even if I was able to play twice as much since I didn't have a normal job. That would still be depressing though, and embarrassing.)

Another obvious downside is the social factor. When you work, you get to meet people during the day, and that feels good. Sitting alone in your room all the time is not what you're supposed to do at your age (or any age). There is of course an upside social factor too; if your friends want to go somewhere for a week or a weekend, you will never have trouble getting off from work if you want to go. But all in all, poker as a job is not good for your fun-with-other-people-summer.

Also, something about contributing to society. But wouldn't that be hypocritical of me to speak about.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, I'm just listing downsides to it. I've seen from your posts that you've been running very hot in the NL$25; I've been there. But it won't last forever. Your current $ winrate is very sustainable at about NL$100 of course, and you won't stay down at the $25s until the summer probably. But don't get too worked up over poker yet is my advice.

(How many hands have you played?)

afreeman · #5 10-12-2005, 04:56 AM

I think you should do it, with the following observations.

First, many summer jobs and paid internships function as a pathway toward a better job later on. If this is the sort of summer job that you'll be giving up, you may be better off doing that instead (even at a lower payrate) in order to build your resume. If, however, your planned summer job is something like cutting grass or flipping hamburgers, I think we can safely rule out this possibility. Poker is always available to you, but career-building options are not; make damn sure that you don't screw yourself out of any of them.

Second, at this point in your life, you probably don't have any really significant responsibilities to worry about, and thus the total risk is much lower. For instance, you probably don't have to pay rent or utilities, don't have any children to support, and likely don't have any serious financial liabilities (e.g. student loans, mortgage, etc.) In effect, you'll be following the standard advice of "don't pay poker with the rent money" by default. In fact, this is probably the last time in your life that you'll be able to act with this umbrella of security protecting you from the hard rain of going broke; you should make use of it while you can.

Finally, I think its useful to answer the question of whether you would truly want to make a living at this sooner, rather than later. In all probability, you'll make a moderate profit over the course of the summer, but learn that while you can make a living at playing poker, you can make even more money (with less hassle and risk) at something else. This will do wonders for motivating you toward better grades come fall.

excession · #6 10-12-2005, 12:21 PM

'Also, something about contributing to society. But wouldn't that be hypocritical of me to speak about'.

Well if you are Brit or a Kiwi and play wining poker you are importing $$ mainly from the US. You will presumably spend them in your local economy so you are probably contributing more to your national economy than someone shuffling paper in an office/doing data entry on minimum wage..

OK so it's not saving lives but it is more valuable than a large number of jobs IMHO... for example I'm not sure that being business lawyer (who is mainly a transactional cost on the local economy) is really any more beneficial..

#7 10-12-2005, 12:51 PM

I've been playing 6 max limit hold'em for a living (well, tuition, rent, etc) for about 2 yrs now. I just hated it after a while. 4-8 tabling really drains you. I had a hard time starting up the poker client to play. Was lucky to get 10 hrs a week in (which thankfully is more than enough to pay the bills/save). Anyways, I switched to NL and I've been playing nonstop. Enjoying poker a lot right now. I think being able to switch games will help a lot with burnout, as long as you're willing to take a small paycut for the first week or two. It'll probably make you a better poker player in the long run anyways.

Isura · #8 10-12-2005, 12:57 PM

FWIW, I played poker this summer to support myself. I started grad school this fall, so there was no real need for me to get a real job just for the summer. I would suggest trying to improve and move up. It is more fun when you can make $50/hr and only have to "work" a few hours a day.

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Is there a downside to playing poker this summer instead of working?

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So, you are currently in law school? I would think that working some kind of internship (atleast volunteer) would do more for you career than poker. I think having a career related summer job and playing poker in the evening would be a better plan. Not sure how the job/internship situation works in NZ though.

wtfsvi · #9 10-12-2005, 01:04 PM

How do I contribute anything to anything worthwile by moving money from the US to Norway? That doesn't make much sense. But lets not get into a discussion about if poker is contributing to society.

excession · #10 10-12-2005, 03:15 PM

Well you are certainly contributing to Norwegian society [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I know that Norway is richer per capita than US, but for sure NZ isn't so the Kiwi is at least redistributing wealth from the rich to the (relatively) poor. A bit like Robin Hood then [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

As for being for the benefit of the world there aren't that many jobs (for example) you can genuinely claim add to the good of the world - at least by not commuting to some dreadful office job he's probably less of a net drag on the world's resources...