AJo - trying to kill the free card play

#1 10-02-2005, 02:34 AM

The villain in this case was a reasonably solid player, although perhaps a little over aggressive. When he capped on the flop I felt he was going for the free card, or else he would have just called the three-bet to set up a raise on the turn. That's what put me off check-raising him on the turn. Would anyone have been tempted? Or do you feel it was better to just lead out?

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets...

#2 10-02-2005, 03:04 AM

How can you be tempted to CR someone you put on a missed flush draw? If has what you put him on then he's going to check behind.

MyTurn2Raise · #3 10-02-2005, 03:10 AM

Yep...lead out and just hope the villian doesn't have JJ or 77. You're still good against a wider swath of villian hands--flush draw, AK, AQ, ATs even.

bambi · #4 10-02-2005, 03:14 AM

yep lead out, if he raises call it down

#5 10-02-2005, 03:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
How can you be tempted to CR someone you put on a missed flush draw? If has what you put him on then he's going to check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I put him on a flush draw, which is why I led the turn. So I guess my question is better phrased as - was I right to put him on a flush draw?

MyTurn2Raise · #6 10-02-2005, 03:41 AM

Yes, I think a flush draw (with a pair or gutshot straight draw) is the #1 possibility. However, the cap on the flop discounts this likelihood somewhat. While many players at that level will raise for a free card, few cap for one.

I listed the other like holdings that I suspect above.

Harv72b · #7 10-02-2005, 03:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
was I right to put him on a flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if he really is a "reasonably solid player". We're talking about a pretty narrow range of hands that he'd coldcall with preflop which make a 4-flush after this flop. KcQc probably, KcJc/QcJc possibly. Anything much beyond that and we're into the donk realm.

I think you're looking at 77 a significant portion of the time, or even the case jacks.

#8 10-02-2005, 03:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not if he really is a "reasonably solid player". We're talking about a pretty narrow range of hands that he'd coldcall with preflop which make a 4-flush after this flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if he was really solid, he'd have a pretty narrow range to cold call with period. So he wasn't that solid [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I can't remember what he had - AK or AQ I think. For a while after the hand played, I remember trying to figure out whether a flush draw or something else was the most likely. I ended up deciding that giving a free card could be more costly than getting an extra bet from a checkraise. I'm not sure there's a lot in it, given he'd call a bet anyway with a flush draw.

thesharpie · #9 10-02-2005, 04:07 AM

The only flush draw I see being played this way is KJ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], maybe QJ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] if he's extra loose preflop. KQ[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] wouldn't want to face the field with 2 cold the first time around, although it's possible since he's overagressive. I also lead the turn just in case he has a flush draw, and I don't want to be putting 3 bets in on the turn.

detruncate · #10 10-02-2005, 06:06 AM

Reasonably solid might cold call with AJs, KQs, QJs, maybe AQs, maybe small/med PPs. He probably raises JJ.

He could reasonably cap the flop with 77 and any hand he figures has ~12 outs (KQ of flush, QJ of flush), also maybe AQ if he's particularly aggressive or thinks we've been overaggressive.

All the hands we beat except maybe AQ will usually take a free card after our flop 3-bet said that we're not going anywhere. Therefore, hands he bets are very likely to beat us if we're correct about our read.

I like the turn lead since a goodly % of his hands are looking for a free card and hate the c/r since he almost never bets when we're ahead.