My turn to sound foolish; Question about playing pocket 10s

[CandyMaan]

I'm fairly new. Holding my own, well no not really. But I plan to work at this until I'm an expert.

Why are pocket 10s, or 9s for that matter, considered so good? If you don't flop a set, you KNOW your going to see a J Q K or A on the flop? And should I play pocket 10s beyond the flop if I can't continue for free, with a paint card on the board? I just don't get the value of this hand.

Thanks in advance.

CandyMaan

[goofball]

First of all, TT doesn't always flop an overcard. Haven't you seen 842 flops? Second, even if the overcard flops there's no reason to automatically give your opponent credit for it. The average winning hand in holdem is a pair or two pair, your hand already has a lot of showdown value if you have TT/99. Your job is to try to figure out whether or not the overcards helped your opponent or not, not assume they did.

Also, they can flop hugely profitable sets.

[CandyMaan]

Well I understand the potential of the hand. And I realize paint cards don't always flop, but usually one will. What I don't understand/agree with about 1010 and 99 is the recommendations in most holdem books to raise and reraise with them. And your probably right, I'm too quick to assume that a bet after the flop is an assumption my opponent has improved his hand with the overcard.

[pipster]

Even the worst of low-limit players will not often play Kx, Qx, Jx hands. In a capped or 3 bet pre-flop you can limit the field to Ax, pocket pairs, KQ, KJ, J10, suited connectors, etc. A rather predictable and more beatable set of hands for pocket 10's. You reraise pre-flop because you have the best chance to win of all the hands seeing the flop (assuming noone has a higher pocket pair).

If an Ace hits on the flop and someone bets out into you.. You probably are beat. If a Q hits and it is checked to you.. you probably are good. At higher limits a raise/re-raise play will normally isolate you against one caller. In many cases with 2 overs to you, but you are still 50/50 to win.

[nuclear500]

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=941190
pokenum -h tc th - ah kc - 9s 9h
Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Tc Th 617558 45.05 748027 54.57 5169 0.38 0.452
Kc Ah 501278 36.57 864307 63.05 5169 0.38 0.367
9s 9h 246749 18.00 1118836 81.62 5169 0.38 0.181


As for "knowing" you are going to see an over card?

So what? Over cards fall a lot less then you think, and just because someone called your raise, doesn't mean they have to have the card(s). I've fired at all conceivable flops with Ten's even out of position and gotten my opponent to fold.

Your opponents don't have to be calling with AK or AQ or KQ all the time. He might be calling with A8s or KTd or QJs and when that King comes, he might drop his hand, even if he pairs his Jack.

Me thinks you are getting the mindset that just because they called you they have two overs to your Tens. They might be calling with a pair of 9's thinking you for the AQc and when the flop comes 327 you have them if you play it right.

Weak-Tight mindset...I'm battling against it right now and have been for awhile.