100-200 against stoxtrader - Page 5

Ulysses · #41 03-22-2005, 03:55 AM

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If he check-raises the turn and I three bet, he is definitely not calling down with worse than a queen.

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something seems wrong here
short-handed with a paired board
why so obvious?

HiatusOver · #42 03-22-2005, 04:03 AM

If Lestat was willing to give me SH hold-em lessons
I would take them

J.A.Sucker · #43 03-22-2005, 04:05 AM

Bet the turn. If c/r'd, then I'd call and let him fire again at the river. Either he has it or he has air. Either way, let him bet again. I prefer this to getting more action in on the turn, though it's close.

James282 · #44 03-22-2005, 04:25 AM

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For many reasons, this is not a hand that can go more than 2 bets on any street for me. Stoxtrader is a player folks

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you contradict yourself here
for you say stox is a player
but when he puts in any bets
your AA trembles with fear

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one thing I see
this much is clear
stox sits atop James
in the heirarchy of fear

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Fear implies that it is irrational, which you may think it is..but I know that certain opponents will give me respect in certain situations, and certain ones won't. I honestly don't see why talking about hands outside of this one is valuable in this situation. I doubt stox thinks I am capable of reposturing against him because we've never been in a situation where I might. We haven't played much together at these limits, and simply put, while he's capable of check-raising me without a Q I doubt he'd call down if I three-bet. What I'm saying is, a 3 bet is valueless. That shouldn't be exceptionally hard to understand.

Finally, the game was 6 handed, so it's not like this was 4 handed or something. I should've been more clear about that and I apologize, I realize now it does impact his possible range of hands. Aldo, Lakerman_ was UTG+1 I believe. Anyways, glad you all think I'm a huge wuss, but I think playing this hard back at an opponent like him is pointless given our history. Hopefully stox can chime in with his insight at some point and weigh in on either side.
-James

James282 · #45 03-22-2005, 04:52 AM

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Sometimes these seem painfully clear to me. I may be wrong, but...

Geez, James 3-bet outta the big blind. He has a pair, AK, AQ most of the time. I dunno how often James would 3-bet a hand like AJ or KQ here. So I'm thinking pair or AK or AQ.

Flop QQ6. Check/bet call. Neat. Plain.

Turn is a 9. If I'm Stox, I'm putting James on a pair, which will bet here nearly 100% of the time, AQ, which will bet here 100% of the time, or AK, which may or may not bet here.

SB checks, and James checks. Duh, James must have AK.

River King...bada bing!! what a great river checkraise opportunity we have here!! So, viola, he checkraises James on the river.

James may have called to see Stox QTo (would he call this from the SB vs. a steal in a shorthanded game?) or Q9s or some such.

Or, James, knowing he was beat did what I'd do OCCASSIONALLY (maybe 25ish% of the time) and fold.

This seems obvious. As such, I must be way off.

Josh

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Great post Josh. I deeply considered folding at the time.
-James

HiatusOver · #46 03-22-2005, 04:55 AM

Josh's post is very good...makes a lot of sense.

Also I just read in a different thread that Lestat is stuck after 50K online hands...hope those lessons are cheap, because I might need the money after them.

James282 · #47 03-22-2005, 04:56 AM

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Bet the turn. If c/r'd, then I'd call and let him fire again at the river. Either he has it or he has air. Either way, let him bet again. I prefer this to getting more action in on the turn, though it's close.

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I check the turn because..after the flop it's obvious he has at least a pair outside the Qs, right? Can he fold it if I fire again on the turn? It's possible, because who knows if I'd fire again with AK against this particular opponent. He could be calling on a bluff, in which case I get more bets when he calls and bluffs the turn, but against stoxtrader, for those of you who have never played with him, him having a pair or a Q is incredibly more likely.

In hindsight, I think a turn bet is probably correct, and sadly I'd just have to call down.
-James

Ulysses · #48 03-22-2005, 05:03 AM

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I doubt stox thinks I am capable of reposturing against him because we've never been in a situation where I might.

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but I think playing this hard back at an opponent like him is pointless given our history.

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sooner or later
i think you will want to start
might as well be now

Steve Giufre · #49 03-22-2005, 05:30 AM

OK I'm far from sober right now so this post probably wont make much sense but you guys are all way off here. Lestat and Gambler posted some great shorthanded stuff in this thread, and most of it was a lot more advanced than what all of us are used to reading on this board. But, it doesnt apply to this hand. And all this Stox owns James stuff is just dumb. James doesnt need to "draw a line in the sand" or whatever because they know each other and have played thousand of hands agaist each other.

I'm not saying checking the turn is right, I would probably bet it a lot of the time, but what if Stox would normally play AK and say 22-88 pretty fast on the flop, and the call set off a warning bell? I mean this isnt a heads up or three handed game, its six handed. No Stox isnt gonna float the the flop and checkraise the turn with dust. And supposing James does bet the turn, and he gets checkraised, there is no way Stox he is gonna pay off with a worse hand if James three bets. James doesnt need to three bet a very wide range of hands on this turn because he obvioulsy doesnt feel that Stox will check raise this turn very often without the goods, and he sure isnt paying off all the small and medium pair hands that are being mentioned. So, take all that meta game game stuff and chuck it out the window, because both these guy have a very good idea how the other plays going into this hand.

I think Stox's river checkraise was pretty nasty, and I really like the way he played this hand. If I were in James's shoes I would probably pay it off, but Stox is gonna here turn over a queen here almost all of the time. maybe he would check raise AK some of the time, I'm not sure, I kinda doubt it.

Steve Giufre · #50 03-22-2005, 05:33 AM

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Josh's post is very good...makes a lot of sense.

Also I just read in a different thread that Lestat is stuck after 50K online hands...hope those lessons are cheap, because I might need the money after them.

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There isnt a lot that gets me laughing after droping 6k in a night, but that got it done. I agree Josh's post was great.