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#31
08-08-2005, 10:11 PM
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Re: Chip Runner Lays Odds
Okay... I play poker. I knowingly take people's hard earned money that they may or may not need to feed their families, pay the mortages, cars, utilities, etc. This is how I make a living. It is my chosen career path and I in no way try to pretend that it's noble or that I may not be screwing the little guy. Frankly, I don't care. I'm cold-hearted and it's his own damn problem, not mine.
If I clearly have no problem taking money off of people who have a gambling problem, I certainly have no problem taking advantage of the casino being a bunch of idiots and giving me an extra $500. You can argue my morals to death, but my beliefs are mine. I just find it hypocritical when anyone who plays poker for a living pretends to be some sort of noble, upstanding citizen who would never engage in any shading dealings. Clearly, you'd have to be lying to yourself to say this. I don't know where I was going with this, but at least my stance should be clear. That's all I have. 
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#32
08-08-2005, 10:23 PM
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Re: Chip Runner Lays Odds
[ QUOTE ]
Okay... I play poker. I knowingly take people's hard earned money that they may or may not need to feed their families, pay the mortages, cars, utilities, etc. This is how I make a living. It is my chosen career path and I in no way try to pretend that it's noble or that I may not be screwing the little guy. Frankly, I don't care. I'm cold-hearted and it's his own damn problem, not mine. If I clearly have no problem taking money off of people who have a gambling problem, I certainly have no problem taking advantage of the casino being a bunch of idiots and giving me an extra $500. You can argue my morals to death, but my beliefs are mine. I just find it hypocritical when anyone who plays poker for a living pretends to be some sort of noble, upstanding citizen who would never engage in any shading dealings. Clearly, you'd have to be lying to yourself to say this. I don't know where I was going with this, but at least my stance should be clear. That's all I have. [/ QUOTE ] In poker, people have made a conscious choice to play against you... whether they are taking the worst of it or not is irrelevant. A chip runner giving you too much money is a procedural, accounting error by someone conducting business. I hope you and the OP realize that it's possible to have both the libertarian outlook (that I feel is necessary) to be successful at poker and at the same time, have a conscience. Granted, this is becoming more clear to me at 25 than in was when I was the age of most posters, but it'll come; you'll get it someday. Dan
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#34
08-08-2005, 10:30 PM
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Re: Chip Runner Lays Odds
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In Antwort auf:</font><hr />
I just find it hypocritical when anyone who plays poker for a living pretends to be some sort of noble, upstanding citizen who would never engage in any shading dealings. Clearly, you'd have to be lying to yourself to say this. [/ QUOTE ] I can see where it would make you feel better to convince yourself that "everyone else would do it too", but I can assure you that's not the case. Please just accept this as a matter in which you have room for improvement, just like you would do if evidence showed you like Q9s too much in the cutoff. Martin
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#36
08-09-2005, 01:54 AM
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Re: Chip Runner Lays Odds
[ QUOTE ]
Har! Poker players lecturing on morals. This whole thread makes me laugh. [/ QUOTE ] Thank you. And I'm not saying everyone else would do it; frankly, I don't give a damn what anyone else would do in the situation. I'm saying I have no problem with the cashier giving me an extra "whatever" and keeping it. I have no desire to fit into anyone elses morals or ideals and I really don't care for or want anyone's approval. I have many values that many people probably wouldn't agree with. Taking the free money a business accidentally gave me is not even near the worst of them. And if you think that the people are conciously choosing to play poker as if they aren't totally addicted to gambling, you are again completely fooling yourself. If dealing drugs was quasi-legal (just like online poker), I would do it in a heartbeat. I find playing poker for a living to be quite similiar. I can extrapolate if anyone cares me to.
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#37
08-09-2005, 02:01 AM
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Re: Chip Runner Lays Odds
[ QUOTE ]
Granted, this is becoming more clear to me at 25 than in was when I was the age of most posters, but it'll come; you'll get it someday. [/ QUOTE ] I'll try to avoid flaming you, but this condescending crap that people spew off on those they consider not as "good" as they are is complete BS. Good god, you are 25 and I'm only 21. Please let me bow down before your infinite wisdom.... get real. While I consider myself wiser as I've grown older I will hopefully never feel the need to preach to anybody, especially youth. Let people make their own mistakes, let their views change to whatever THEY feel is right as they get older, but please don't try to make yourself feel any better than anyone else by telling someone what to do. Frankly, nobody wants to hear it. If more people took a more lassiez faire approach to life and just let everyone be, I feel we'd all be much better off. This is why I hate getting into these stupid moral arguments, especially on a message board. Why I am defending myself, I do not understand. In fact, I've done such a good job of convincing myself, that I'm done posting to this thread.
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#38
08-09-2005, 02:07 AM
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Re: Chip Runner Lays Odds
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Granted, this is becoming more clear to me at 25 than in was when I was the age of most posters, but it'll come; you'll get it someday. [/ QUOTE ] I'll try to avoid flaming you, but this condescending crap that people spew off on those they consider not as "good" as they are is complete BS. Good god, you are 25 and I'm only 21. Please let me bow down before your infinite wisdom.... get real. While I consider myself wiser as I've grown older I will hopefully never feel the need to preach to anybody, especially youth. Let people make their own mistakes, let their views change to whatever THEY feel is right as they get older, but please don't try to make yourself feel any better than anyone else by telling someone what to do. Frankly, nobody wants to hear it. If more people took a more lassiez faire approach to life and just let everyone be, I feel we'd all be much better off. This is why I hate getting into these stupid moral arguments, especially on a message board. Why I am defending myself, I do not understand. In fact, I've done such a good job of convincing myself, that I'm done posting to this thread. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, I wasn't attempting to be condescending or make it seems as if I have ages on you. I was just trying to say that I used to think more like you (as in "[censored] it, poker's predatory, so who [censored] cares what I do in a poker room." Changing my mindset from being purely predatory has done leaps and bounds for my game. Again, I wasn't trying to belittle you, and I appreciate you not flaming me. I just thought that you were comparing two things that were not quite apples and oranges, but different.
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#40
08-09-2005, 02:16 AM
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Re: Chip Runner Lays Odds
DanS,
I said I'd stay out, but since you gave a reasonable response, I just wanted to thank you for that. I believe we simply disagree here and I think I may have come off a little hard with the semi-flaming. I'm just very libertarian and don't believe that anyone really has a place to be criticizing anyone else's morals. That's why things like this get to me. He didn't break the law, so everyone should get off his case. Preaching to people REALLY doesn't get you (the general you) anywhere. People just do not listen. And frankly, what does it matter to your life if the OP got an extra $100 from a chip runner. I hardly think it affects you (and don't anyone dare try to give me some long drawn out BS scenario where the 'now homeless chip runner breaks into your house and kills your family when they try to fight back after he robs the place' type of thing). Leave the guy alone. Please. I don't go into your church and scream bloody murder that the notion of god is just an elaborate hoax designed to control people and their rather meaningless lives. Don't come into my card room and tell me to give the cashier his money back.
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