Stupid, stupid stupid

[Boris]

I don't think it's an easy fold at all. Even if both players opened their hand face up, you are ~1.7:1 to make a flush with two cards to come. The presence of third player in the pot gives you a pretty big overlay here. I'm not sure if giving up your pot equity in this case is worth the reduction in downside risk you get by folding. Again, I say this with the caveat that you are not near the end of the tourny. If you can fold your way to a seat then just muck the hand pre-flop.

[DVO]

"or

b) Folded preflop, I did not have a great feeling, "

Whoa! What are you talking about here...you have a premium hand. Don't start second guessing your Pre flop play here, it was fine..

[adanthar]

You can't fold the flop. MP3 will almost certainly call, and at that point you're putting in 2K to win at least 10. Given you're still gonna be above average without those 2K, you have to call this if you know he check/folds a spade turn.

The turn is your big mistake. For whatever reason, I've noticed both myself and other people justifying these calls on flush boards when you know to throw the hand away in any other situation. As always, the trick is simple: ask yourself "if I had T9o and the board was QJ55, would I call here?" When you answer no, go ahead and throw it away.

[Gar Pike]

I know what you mean. "bad" play gets rewarded and "good" play doesn't. Where's the justice in that? and then to have the "winner" start talkin' smack. That would set me right off, and I'd probably do something fairly to incredibly stupid in short order.

I was watching the WSOP Tournament of Champions, and something Annie Duke said struck a chord.

"Professional pokerplayers control their emotions" or words to that effect. As in, I think, not the other way around.

When I'm playing in a tournament and feel things getting to me, I distract my self for the first 3 or 4 levels with something else, fold everything but the cream of starting hands and review the hand history from each hand to get a feel for how they're playing. Keeps me from having to suffer watching the bad guys win. Puts a buffer between me and the immediacy of pain, as it were.

So, about the hand, I would have either folded to the flop re-raise or, if I was "feelin' lucky" called it and check-folded the turn when I didn't hit the flush. I'm hoping I would have folded though, because drawing to a hand that isn't the nuts is one of the many roads to poker hell. Or, at least, the rail...

"Don't be distracted by pretty" Dad told me once.

He wasn't talking about poker, but it still applies [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Regards,

Gar

[Che]

Wow, we've got our resident psychotherapist! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Please take that as a compliment, Gar Pike. I believe this is the second excellent post I've seen from you today regarding proper mindset.

[ QUOTE ]
"Don't be distracted by pretty" Dad told me once.

He wasn't talking about poker, but it still applies

[/ QUOTE ]

Distracted? I guess it depends on what you're after...but now I'm not talking about poker, either. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Nevermind.

[Tyler]

whats ur name? im still in with T16k,name 1ee7

i won an 18 man SNG earlier to qualifyy for it thought so its ok if i lose [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[EnderW27]

First off, unless you put your explanation paragraph in the wrong place, I think you're misunderstanding the concept of implied odds.

Your implied odds are what you'll be paid off from your opponents after you hit your hand. When you were faced with that huge raise on the turn, the button had about 95% of his stack committed at that point. You effectively had NO implied odds. Either you would hit your spade or you wouldn't and what you'd get is what was in the pot.

I think pre flop and flop you played it fine. You played it fine even if you were certain the button had fours because on the flop is where your implied odds come from. But when you call the flop and a brick hits on the turn you cannot go any further with this hand. You know you're beat and while it's cost you 1/6 of your stack you're still dominating the entire table!
But you knew that already, didn't you?

[Percula]

Yes the implied odds where on the turn.

Thank you all for the replies and insight. Gar, if you are not posting in the physc forum, you should be. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I think we have pretty much come to a conculsion on the hand...

Preflop... OK, maybe a larger raise.

Flop... OK, but a push here might have made a better player lay down, but given the buy-in level and aggressive nature of these two, they would have called regardless.

Turn... BAD, BAD, BAD! Bet, fold to the reraise or check fold here was the right move and where I really lost my disipline. I love the line with T9o on a Q55 board, I will have to remember that. Also need to remember that my odds of hitting the flush drops significantly if missed on the turn, from 34% on the flop to about 13% on the turn, not the best odds to be putting a big chunck in with.

On the whole I have played some good poker the last couple of weeks, despite some lapses in disipline/attitude. The results do not always show it, but my play is really improving. I played a total of 5 of these $3 rebuys since Sunday. I have started with a double buy (T3000) and have not needed to rebuy and have not been able to add-on because I was over T20K at the add-on in all but one of these. Of the 5 I have 3 seats (all cashed out trying to build some T$ roll). I played a WSOP sub-sat this weekend and finish on the bubble after two bad beats in a row. Played many SnGs making some excellent coin. So from a results stand point I did not do as well as I could have, but from a play stand point (other than glaring errors posted here and some not) I did very well.

[Cleveland Guy]

Great post Gar. I made my own stupid mistake last night. It was exactly as you decided. I "knew" my oponent had Ax. and that there was no way he would call.

Forget that he limped and then did a min-reraise to me. I said "this is bubble time, he won't want to put all his chips on the line with just an Ace".

SO I reraised him with my TT. Figuring he has to fold - of course unless he has a monster. 3 hours of great play just to be in the bottom of the money.

I will defitnately post this next to my monitor.

[Gar Pike]

This made my day.

I'm glad I can finally give something in return for the insights you-all have given me.

Now if only I can remember to do as I say, and not as I do... [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]