JTs after a reraise preflop

bkawz · #1 05-01-2005, 02:33 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter

UTG ($379.3)
MP ($320.45)
CO ($181.65)
Button ($108.3)
SB ($253.6)
Hero ($740.5)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, MP calls $2, 2 folds, SB (poster) completes, Hero raises to $8, MP raises to $25, SB folds, Hero calls $15.

Flop: ($52) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $30, Hero calls $30.

Turn: ($112) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $30, Hero calls $30.

River: ($172) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: $172

Results in white below: 
Hero has Js Ts (two pair, tens and fours).
MP has Kd Ks (two pair, kings and fours).
Outcome: MP wins $172.

theblitz · #2 05-01-2005, 03:08 PM

Fold pre-flop.
Best would have been to check and see the flop.
JTs is not as strong as it may seem.
Add to that the fact that you are out of position and there is no way I am playing that hand.
I don't even like the original raise never mind the call of the re-raise.

bkawz · #3 05-01-2005, 03:12 PM

forget about preflop, tell me what you do postflop

poboy · #4 05-01-2005, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
forget about preflop, tell me what you do postflop

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't forget preflop, as that is where the whole problem is. Raising a marginal hand OOP and then calling a reraise is just asking for trouble. However since you got yourself in this spot, that is a pretty good flop for you and an even better turn. Yet you play it about as passively as it can be played. 'Check and Call' is a losing strategy, I would have check-raised or led out on the turn. JMO

just2ska · #5 05-01-2005, 03:55 PM

you really have to fold JTs pre-flop.. i know you want advice post flop but you should have been in the hand ESPECIALLY after a reraise...

If i were you i'd check to him on the flop.. if his bet is small enough for you to call on a flush draw then do it (maybe a check raise?)... but you're probably behind in this hand the whole way since it sounds like he has an over pair.
lead the turn... if he re raises you a good amount then i think it's time to drop this hand... but fold this pf from now on in this situation

EDIT:
you REALLY should have folded pre-flop... that's a huge part of your problem in this hand.

just2ska

bkawz · #6 05-01-2005, 04:00 PM

Why would u check raise that flop against a hand that looks very like an overpair.

bkawz · #7 05-01-2005, 04:02 PM

I really dont think there is a big problem in this hand, i called the raise preflop knowing that he has a high pair, i can get away very easy from this hand.

Siawyn · #8 05-01-2005, 04:05 PM

Er... you got limp-reraised, and it should have been an easy muck. You can't ignore that it happened because now it stuck you in this situation.

Having said that, you hit about the best damn flop you could hope for, so I check-raise the flop and lead out on the turn. Okay, so you still don't win this hand as it turns out, but that's being results orientated. You are almost even money vs an overpair in that situation -- if he doesn't have a spade in his hand you're actually a slight favorite.

Check calling this type of hand isn't going to make you much money...

However on the turn I would have just called since you're getting laid a good price.

Given that the river ragged off, there's very little fold equity here so check-folding is in order.

Ghazban · #9 05-01-2005, 04:05 PM

As others have said, calling the preflop limp/reraise is not good. However, assuming you do that, I'd be pretty aggressive on this flop, either with a checkraise or a lead right into the raiser (possibly reraising if you get raised). A pair plus a flush draw is a favorite over an overpair (which he probably has given the limp/reraise) with two cards to come but can be tough to play if there's still money to be bet when you don't hit any of your 14 outs on the turn. Furthermore, he might lay down if you show some strength. If you just check and call as you did, you have to actually make your hand to win the pot.

poboy · #10 05-01-2005, 04:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why would u check raise that flop against a hand that looks very like an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would check-raise because a pair and a flush draw is a slight favorite against an overpair(as long as one of his cards isn't of my suit). Given that he may laydown right there this is far more +ev than check-calling. JMO