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  #1  
Old 03-06-2004, 08:34 PM
La Brujita La Brujita is offline
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Default Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

I am taking this from his book Improve Your Poker. Cloutier and McEvoy (among others) went one way, Ciaffone and Harrington (among others) went another.

One table satellite to WSOP, only one player wins entry. Four players left, chip stacks pretty even. 8000 in chips in play, blinds 200-400 and increase every 10 minutes.

You have 1900 in the BB before posting. UTG open raises all in to 1950 (he has you covered). Folded to you in the big blind holding K-Q offsuit.

Your play?

Regards
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  #2  
Old 03-06-2004, 08:41 PM
BradleyT BradleyT is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

Fold. If you ever see me calling all in to a raise with KQo (when I'm not heads up) please shoot me.
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2004, 09:01 PM
jaydoggie jaydoggie is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

hm. with 5 bets each. i think there is alot of pushing. since a double is worthless. and 3x doesnt leave you any chips to push on the flop.

hes probably pushing with an A high, or a pair. in each case youre probably 50/50 or 40/60.

youre calling 1500 into a pot of 2100 assuming no ante. next hand you'll be down to 1300 after posting small (again assuming no ante).

if you win the hand you have a big chip advantage, and have a better chance to go on and win it. since it only pays 1 spot, i think this is crucial.

call me a gambler but i call.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2004, 11:30 PM
frisbee frisbee is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

I'd say the "character/history" of the UTG would have lots to do with this, but all things equal, I fold. Too 50/50 too early.

Cheers
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  #5  
Old 03-07-2004, 02:40 AM
jaydoggie jaydoggie is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

blinds 200/400 too early?
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2004, 04:42 AM
DrPhysic DrPhysic is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

I agree with Bradley. Fold it.

KQo is a lousy hand. IMO, does not fit the description in the gap concept of a "better hand" with which to call. As Bradley says, it is at least a little better heads up.

I'll do my own pushing with the remaining 1300 on the next three hands with whatever I get. If somebody pushes, and I don't have AA, KK, QQ?, or AK on the SB hand, I pass. I open push with any drawing hand on the SB hand, IE: any pair, any A or K, any suited connector.

Button hand as above. Add open push with gapped connectors pr any 2 suited cards.

CO hand (which is also UTG), I open push with any two cards. I can wait one more orbit, but if I do, I'll be down to 700 and nobody is afraid of the bet anymore. Then, I must get the top cards because it will be called. Besides, blinds will have prob gone up again by then. Better to do it now with the 1300, and at least have a chance of everybody folding to a push, or catching a decent flop.

All three of the next hands are a better chance than calling with the KQo.

Doc




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  #7  
Old 03-07-2004, 05:02 AM
frisbee frisbee is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

4 left is too early. But I lose, so I'm probably quite wrong. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

But again, since it is a toss up, the take on the other player becomes very very important. That's what would decide it for me. I would call with a feel that UTG was playing games. Probably not if he liked to bluff from first position. And who knows on everything in between. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Cheers
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2004, 06:45 AM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

Let's see. You are getting 63:37 from the pot. That's *way* +EV if he has any pair JJ and low, and marginally +EV if he's on any A, AJ and low. Considering you hold one of each K and Q, chances for KK or QQ are lower, and same for AK and AQ. AA is maybe the only hand he woudln't push here but only raise, so chances for AA are also a bit lower, maybe. This depends, of course, heavily, on your read of him.

All in all, it looks like a call, and not a very close one at that. As your opponent is looser, this becomes clearly +EV. If he's *very* tight, it's probably a fold, or a close call. But I think that with blinds of 200/400, and stacks of ~2000, typical UTG can push with a wide range of hands, including hands you're a big favorite against, KJ, KT, QJ.

The fact that it's a winner-takes-all, and that you'll be left with 1300 after posting SB in the next hand, makes it even more +EV, IMO.

I will be glad to hear good reasons for folding here.

PrayingMantis
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2004, 10:04 AM
DrPhysic DrPhysic is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

OK, LaBruita,

I have ciaffone's book, but am finishing TPFAP and reading Psychology of Poker right now, so I haven't gotten to it yet.

Are you going to tell us the answers from the high dollar players or not?

Doc
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2004, 11:07 AM
jaydoggie jaydoggie is offline
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Default Re: Bob Ciaffone One Table Quiz

yes! i completely agree! but everyone keeps saying no and i dont realize what i must be missing? sure in a sit&go where 3 gets pay, pusing allin on with KQo might not seem like a great play. in this situation the money is tight (everyone has 5BB so theres not going to be much other than ALLIN) AND you HAVE TO TAKE 1st! if you give this up AND the SB. and THEN you double, youre almost back to where you started 2600.

Doc you said yourself you will push with almost anything UTG because the blinds are coming. If your opponent are thinking the same thing this makes KQ A MONSTER! If he would open raise with any suited connectors/gapped/suited Q/K/A/ any A/any pair. how can you fold?

everyone ive asked this too off the board says fold. fold. fold. fold. "if he has an ace he's ahead." yet, these are the same people who would prefer to push with an A2. where every pair has you dominated, any ace has you dominated, and any 2 connectors have a 40%+ chance.

someone post what pros says push and what pros said fold.
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