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  #1  
Old 12-21-2005, 03:58 AM
UCLAseetoK UCLAseetoK is offline
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Posts: 428
Default Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole field?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO caps</font>, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.16 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, CO calls.

River: (18.16 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, CO calls.

Final Pot: 20.16 BB

During the hand, I told myself to isolate this pot vs the pf raiser on the turn due to the pot size... but would it be appropriate given this board to try to trap the field on all 3 streets? (assume we know pf raiser has an overpair and will lead when checked to.)

... I've always wanted to get a trifecta off =D
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:10 AM
UCLAseetoK UCLAseetoK is offline
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Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole field?

excuse me, i was wrong about my use of the term trifecta here, since i wasn't the aggressor.

so i just ask, do i try to trap the field on all 3 streets?
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole fi

Your play in the hand seems fine to me. You can absolutely not be sure CO will bet behind you on the turn, so a bet from you is a must. And even if he would definitely bet, it's better to bet yourself and hope he raises, protecting your hand.

Edit:
Except for the preflop play, which I don't like.
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole fi

[ QUOTE ]
Your play in the hand seems fine to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woops, forgot about preflop, which I definitely don't like. You are rather late, in MP3, and there are simply too few limpers.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:48 AM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole fi

[ QUOTE ]
And even if he would definitely bet, it's better to bet yourself and hope he raises, protecting your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
If we know the flop aggressor will bet the turn, going for a check/raise would be correct and it's not close at all.

First of all, a check/raise would guarantee that 2 bets goes into the pot making it incorrect for a gut-shot to call along, while a bet only gets 2 bets into the pot when we get raised. And when we get raised we will never ever get a hand that's correct to call to fold. Because our hand is so strong the only hands correct to call is a fd or oesd and those won't fold. But check/raising will trap those hands we don't want to fold, such as paired hands and PPs. A bet and a raise won't do that.

There's absolutely no point in betting this turn if we know it's going to get bet behind.


In reality, what hands will the prf cap the flop with. AA-JJ (and TT but that's a hand we're screwed against however we play) and AK-AT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]/KQ-KT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]/QJ-QT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. So by checking the turn we're definately giving a freecard to at least 6 of his possible holdings, maybe even as much as 9 holdings depending on if he bets his flushdraws paired with a T. I think we can estimate we give a freecard to 7.5 combos on average and we'll be able to check/raise 26.5 holdings. Giving a freecard would really blow so I think the decision on betting or check/raising the turn is pretty close, but in a favor of betting out.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:52 AM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole fi

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your play in the hand seems fine to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woops, forgot about preflop, which I definitely don't like. You are rather late, in MP3, and there are simply too few limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Me[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Preflop
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:54 AM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole field?

I would check/raise the turn if the flop were rainbow, but bet out in this case.
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole fi

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your play in the hand seems fine to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woops, forgot about preflop, which I definitely don't like. You are rather late, in MP3, and there are simply too few limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Me[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being ironic, or could you elaborate on that? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:10 AM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 270
Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole fi

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your play in the hand seems fine to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woops, forgot about preflop, which I definitely don't like. You are rather late, in MP3, and there are simply too few limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Me[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being ironic, or could you elaborate on that? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Unless I have a reason to be believe the risk of getting raised is greater than average (ie there's very aggressive players yet to act) I limp a pair 2nd in. Which means I limp PPs in this situation almost all the time.
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2005, 07:13 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Party 3/6.... do I go for the trifecta while trapping the whole fi

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And even if he would definitely bet, it's better to bet yourself and hope he raises, protecting your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
If we know the flop aggressor will bet the turn, going for a check/raise would be correct and it's not close at all.

First of all, a check/raise would guarantee that 2 bets goes into the pot making it incorrect for a gut-shot to call along, while a bet only gets 2 bets into the pot when we get raised. And when we get raised we will never ever get a hand that's correct to call to fold. Because our hand is so strong the only hands correct to call is a fd or oesd and those won't fold. But check/raising will trap those hands we don't want to fold, such as paired hands and PPs. A bet and a raise won't do that.

There's absolutely no point in betting this turn if we know it's going to get bet behind.


In reality, what hands will the prf cap the flop with. AA-JJ (and TT but that's a hand we're screwed against however we play) and AK-AT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]/KQ-KT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]/QJ-QT[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. So by checking the turn we're definately giving a freecard to at least 6 of his possible holdings, maybe even as much as 9 holdings depending on if he bets his flushdraws paired with a T. I think we can estimate we give a freecard to 7.5 combos on average and we'll be able to check/raise 26.5 holdings. Giving a freecard would really blow so I think the decision on betting or check/raising the turn is pretty close, but in a favor of betting out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I guess I feel owned now [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I suppose my subconscious reasoning was that if it was 100% sure CO would bet, it would be very likely he would raise after we bet too, and if it was 100% certain CO would raise, a bet from us is of course correct. But of course that's not the case, so I agree, if we're 100% sure he will bet it's not worth the risk hoping he will raise if we bet, so it's better to check/raise.

But at least we agreed that a bet was correct anyway [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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