Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Other Topics > Science, Math, and Philosophy

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-01-2005, 12:38 AM
Cooker Cooker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
Default Re: Saved by God?

He doesn't anger me, but he doesn't seem to realize that I and many atheists believe the bible is largely a work of collected ficitonal stories (some have a grain of fact to support them, but quite little ususally). However, I realize that he accepts only logic born directly out of statements that appear in the bible and other Christian sources, so that it is pointless for me to argue with him since I won't accept bible quotes as evidence and he won't accept logical arguments as evidence.

I will say that I have a bias toward believing that there is no God, but I don't really think it is an important question. If there is a God I think he ignores and probably doesn't even care (maybe doesn't even know about) our existence. I doubt there is an afterlife, but all probabilities suggest I will find out for sure one day.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-01-2005, 12:44 AM
David Sklansky David Sklansky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 241
Default Paging Not Ready

"Are you one of the lucky ones? If so why do you believe it?
And if your theory is true, meaning that the unsaved can do nothing to help themselves, is it also true that the saved cannot do or say anything bad enough to get out of it?"

"Perhaps you are saying that the unsaved are doomed, while the saved can still screw up. So the reason not to screw up is just in case you are among the saved?"


"yes i beleive i am one of the lucky ones because i am a christian- all who are truly christians are the "lucky"ones"

i beleive i am one of the lucky ones because there is so much evidence to be found in the Bible that this is true

romans9
john17
ephesians1
every page about isrial in the old testement

those that are truly saved can never become unsaved
many beleive that they are saved but later move away from God, they were never truly saved in the first place
if you are truly called by God you can not be unsaved"

If I understand him correctly, this would eliminate the need for the whole forum. Plus the advertisers. This has to be nipped in the bud. You are the only one he might listen to. Please help.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:52 AM
sexdrugsmoney sexdrugsmoney is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stud forum
Posts: 256
Default Re: Saved by God?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you one of the lucky ones? If so why do you believe it?
And if your theory is true, meaning that the unsaved can do nothing to help themselves, is it also true that the saved cannot do or say anything bad enough to get out of it?

Perhaps you are saying that the unsaved are doomed, while the saved can still screw up. So the reason not to screw up is just in case you are among the saved?


[/ QUOTE ]

yes i beleive i am one of the lucky ones because i am a christian- all who are truly christians are the "lucky"ones

i beleive i am one of the lucky ones because there is so much evidence to be found in the Bible that this is true

romans9
john17
ephesians1
every page about isrial in the old testement

those that are truly saved can never become unsaved
many beleive that they are saved but later move away from God, they were never truly saved in the first place
if you are truly called by God you can not be unsaved

[/ QUOTE ]

1) It's Israel.

The el is very important because it stands for Elohim if I recall correctly, and you will see many names of humans and angels in the Old Testament that have el on the end usually meaning "<something> of God".

2) Although as a Christian you believe the Calvinist view of "Predestination" it's important to note that not all Christians believe this, in fact most Christian sects don't.(that doesn't mean it is not true though, merely debateable)

It's important to remember to state what you particularly believe in regards to a faith when you are speaking to those who are of various beliefs, and not let your personal interpretation speak for an entire religion.

3) The 'Once saved, always saved' I believe is pretty much correct, however the Book of Revelations makes it pretty clear whoever accepts the Mark of the Beast is doomed. (as recieving the Mark is blasphemy towards the Holy Spirit - which is unforgiveable)

I also am not sure if a person 'moves away from God' that they were "never saved to begin with". Christianity teaches only God knows the nature of his relationship with each individual and thus it is important not to judge others on how we see it.

I know you are young and full of zest, but one must be wary when making bold statements on behalf of God.

Many a great mind has pondered the nature of God and his word, and read the scriptures in their original language to decipher the meaning.

Yet, from all that, the wise ones will say "I think what God is trying to say here is", and not deal in absolutes such as 'if this, then this, so that's that'. (this way of acting IMHO is what is wrong with organized religion)

Cheers,
SDM
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-01-2005, 08:08 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Saved by God?

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt there is an afterlife, but all probabilities suggest I will find out for sure one day.

[/ QUOTE ]If there is no afterlife, how will you find out. "You" will no longer exist, so you'll have no idea about anything once you die.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:03 AM
Cooker Cooker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 159
Default Re: Saved by God?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt there is an afterlife, but all probabilities suggest I will find out for sure one day.

[/ QUOTE ]If there is no afterlife, how will you find out. "You" will no longer exist, so you'll have no idea about anything once you die.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was a joke.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:47 AM
Georgia Avenue Georgia Avenue is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Hand for Hand/Meeting for worship
Posts: 149
Default Re: Saved by God?

[ QUOTE ]

do you know the five points of reformed theology
1. total depravity
2. unconditional election
3. limited atonement
4. irresistable grace
5. persaverence of the saints


[/ QUOTE ]
I'll take 1. and 3. with a side order of 5.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 09-01-2005, 02:13 PM
mike4bmp mike4bmp is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 46
Default Re: Saved by God?

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect most of you have heard this in one form or another:
--------
A man sat listening to flood warnings on his radio on a stormy night. He was a religious man so he did not worry.

The storms came, the rains came. the rains continued and slowly the waters began to rise.

It continued raining, the waters now flooded his ground floor. The whole town was flooded. The emergency services began evacuating the residents.

Rescuers in a boat knocked at his door and urged him to jump into the boat and to be taken to a place of safety.

He steadfastly refused. "God will save me, rescue others whose need is greater than mine".... The rescuers left.

The rains continued unabatedly. The waters continued to rise. By now the flood waters were 10ft high and the man was forced to go upstairs. He was Kneeling and praying when he heard a banging on the window.

"come on, get into the boat and we will take you to higher ground." the rescuers shouted.

"No!.. I'm ok, I have faith in God, he will save me, go and rescue others who are in more need." He replied. The rescuers left....

The storms continued into the night and so the flood waters continued rising. By now the waters had risen 20ft and the man was forced to climb onto the roof of his house.
He was clinging desperately onto the chimney stack.

He was dazzled by a search light from above and a voice from a loudhaler urged him to climb the ladder and board the helicopter to be taken to a place of safety.

He still refused, insisting that his God would save him. .....The helicopter left.

The storm raged on and the waters continued to rise. Sadly the man eventually drowned.....

He died and went to heavan.

As he arrived at the pearly gates, he had to ask God one question, "You know that I've always been a religious man and have lived a righteous life, what I can't understand is, Why didn't you save me from the floods?"

God replied, "I sent two boats and a helicopter, what the [censored] else did you want?"

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL! This is funny... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 09-01-2005, 02:57 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Saved by God?

spaminator101, you wrote "God chose whom he would save before the foundations of the earth. He does save some and not others. He does this to make his glory and power known to those of whom he has saved."

Please explain to me how this "glory" is shown. By your logic, let's say that I'm one of these lucky ones who was born with the "saved" Willy Wonka golden ticket already in hand. Now let's say my family members who all lead very kind altruistic lives are all born with "not saved" tickets. As one of the saved ones, I may certainly see this god as powerful, but I wouldn't find him glorious. Not in the least. I'd find him incredibly unjust and arbitrary.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 09-01-2005, 04:49 PM
spaminator101 spaminator101 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: wondering where in the world I left my sweet tea
Posts: 581
Default Re: Saved by God?

God is glorified because those of whom he saved do not deserve to be saved anyway
Mans soul is evil and God has chosen because of reasons not known to mankind to save the elect
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 09-01-2005, 04:51 PM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Saved by God?

If God has pre-selected those that will be saved, what is the sense in missionary work or proselytizing?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.