Standard raises not working

[ChuckyB]

I play a weekly tournament game. There's usually 9 of us and most players will call everything, it seems.

Normally I like my pre-flop raises to be 2.5 - 3.5xBB (depending on position, plus more for any callers ahead of me). I found those don't push people out and my strong hands get whacked.

Last time out in the first level (25/50, 5000 starting chips), there were 5 limpers ahead of me. On the button I raised to 500 with JJ. SB said it was a "ridiculous raise" and promptly folded.

With the bigger raises, I seemed to get what I want...mostly folds and enough callers to make it manageable.

Do you adjust your raises from game to game to push people out/keep people in? Or are they pretty much the same?

[mlagoo]

You should definitely adjust your raises to suit your game. If you normally raise 3xBB, and 8 people are seeing the flop anyway, it may be time to lift your raise. If your 3xBB raise drives everyone out so you get on action on your Kings, maybe it's time to drop to 2.5xBB or even a minraise (ew).

But yeah, there's certainly no reason to stubbornly stick to the 3xBB rule if it isn't effective. It's just, I guess historically, been the most effective raise to get value on good hands while keeping the number of players to the flop reasonable. If it isn't accomplishing those things, you should change it.

[proell]

In general I pretty much stick to between 3x-4x for open-raises.

As for your example, 500 is pretty much a standard raise for that situation. The 3xBB rule is for open-raising. If there are limpers you need to increase the size of your raise, something to the effect of 1xBB for each limper. So, in your example, your raise should be at least 400, and with that many limpers 500 was even better.

[spentrent]

He gave away a lot with his comment ("Don't count on me to make solid math plays later. Steal from my short stack, please.").

A good standard is 3+X times the BB where X is the number of limpers. This keeps your opponents from getting decent preflop pot odds with speculative hands -- in other words, you'll play the pot 2- or 3-handed if it's not folded around.

Your raise is fine. Don't let crackhead table talkers knock you off your game.

[pokerlaw]

[ QUOTE ]

Do you adjust your raises from game to game to push people out/keep people in? Or are they pretty much the same?

[/ QUOTE ]

especially in a game like yours where the players are regular, not adjusting almost every aspect of your game (from calling/raising standards to raising size to postflop play) to account for the style of play of the players involved is wrong, stupid, and bad poker. just my $.02

[me1tdown]

The online $11s show a wide variance -- some games are all limpers and a 3x raise clears the decks. Other games will have someone push on level one and get two (or more!) callers... go figure. Adjustment is crucial. Usually first thing I'm looking at each $11 on level 1 is what is the raise level that chases hands away. Most often 3 - 5 x does it, but not always.

[ChuckyB]

I thought it was funny that he was calling my raises "ridiculous", when he had no idea why I was raising x amount. You want to grab him by the ears and yell some sense into him, but I'm not there to teach class.