Home Poker Tournament that I cannot beat...

[TheJunkyardGod]

I really like the chip structure of this game. The small blinds give you a chance to see alot of flops early (which i'm sure everyone is already doing)

I also have the same problem in my home game. One thing i've done to improve is to loosen up. If everyone at the table thinks holding any ace is worth seeing to the river, you can risk the chips and chase a few extra draws, when they hit, they'll pay off huge to anyone with, well anything.

Always find the player who thinks their alot better than they are. There's one kid in my usual game who, while i've never seen him leave a casino with money, thinks he's a great player. He constantly tries to bluff, and puts off tells more blatantly than an actor. I read him like a book and, provided my hand holds up to whatever he's chasing (and it really can be whatever)i'll take him for all he's worth.

It's taken me forever to realize this, but i'm playing my friends. This isnt a casino where the people have a few hundred on the table and know what (at least for the most part) they're doing. I needed to remind myself that this is Johns Kitchen, not the Borgata.

[smoore]

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So, smoore, you said you play 30% of flops. So by my estimation, would that be any pair, any ace, any broadway, any suited connector. Or even more than that?

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Position is everything. I can throw away 33 UTG (after I limp and it gets raised) but then play a suited one gapper to a minraise in late position. Yeah, you're getting the idea... You need to be able to hit your hand and still throw it away if you're going to play that trash [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I'll limp any suited King and sometimes a suited queen just for fun. I'm constantly limping into pots when everyone limps ahead of me, then I turn around and raise with trash in LP when there's only a few players. So actually I'm probably not being SLA-A, I'm probably closer to SLP-A with all the preflop limping. I don't mind giving up a little edge preflop because the're going to call anyway and I play well against them postflop. The other week I limped in LP with AA and hit my set on the flop. I got paid to the river by two players because, "Man! You *never* limp with AA!" Heh. By the way, I play 2/4 limit and $50 NL games online and Pokertracker says I'm TA-A or TA-N there (I seem to be right on the fence with the agressive/neutral postflop because it changes in PT depending on how I'm running). I am definitely using a different strategy for these loose home games but I also know most of the players well.

Don't get all-in with TPTK and you'll respect yourself in the morning. Don't go broke in an unraised pot. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[jojobinks]

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Don't go broke in an unraised pot. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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doyle and someone were talking about that last night!

[smoore]

Yeah, he first wrote that down in Super System and now it's a mantra.

[RRRRICK]

Raising pre flop with strong holdings in this sort of game acts as a pot sweetner. The real motive of thinning the field to 2 or 3 doesn't materialize because these loose players as you have described them seem to call with anything. If I were you I would limp in more with strong holdings/suited connectors/marginal hands and try to hit some cheap flops. When you flop a monster loose players are much easier to trap as they will call you. Take as many cheap flops and free cards as you can because you will never be able to make them fold there draws. I've seen players like the ones you've described go all in over the top of a healthy raise with a flush or straight draw against top two pair or set and of course hit there hand and knock a strong player out. Be wary of putting in all your chips unless you have the nuts or close to it. Don't get creative just play like a robot.

[The Legend]

Thanks everyone for some great advice. I'm licking my chops waiting for the next tournament. I can't find anywhere so many horrible players throwing out as much money as in this tournament. Today I played one 10+1 sng , and came back from 515 chips with four people left, to having 2000 vs. 6000 head ups, to winning the whole thing, so my confidence has been restored from my getting busted with AA and KK last night. ( also, the guy who won got AA SIX TIMES last night...)

But my point is, thanks for the good advice. I'll keep you posted on how I do at this thing next week...

[htc1278]

"I usually don't value top pair low kicker much with that many people, but one time I folded it to a bet , and it would've held up for quite a nice pot, and another time I called, and I got beat by quad aces, which crippled my stack!!!"

I hate it when my top pair weak kicker loses to quad aces. You should stop playing in that game--or you better be playing Omaha, in which case you should stop betting with top pair weak kicker...

[The Legend]

Just wanted to update you all on what happened in my tournament this week. We had nine people last night. We decided to divide into two tables of 5 and 4 and then combine when it got down to six. For the first three hours ,as before, re-buys. Everyone starts with 100 chips, blinds start at 1 2. We also decided to give second 25% of the pot and first 75%. Anyway, I played smart, slighty looser, got some chips early. I then got a top pair, middle kicker, and bet strong but got called to the end by a guy who got a runner runner flush and had nothing else, so I lost about 120 of my former 400 chips.(I eventually doubled up with KK called by someone elses 77, my kings held.) I also tried stealing a blind with K 6(on button) by betting 50 (had about 400 chips,five people left at final table) got called by a guy with J 8 or something, flop comes like A Q 8 and he checks, I check. The turn is like a 2 or something, I bluff 50, he calls, we check a blank on the river, and then he shows down the eights, wins like 100(I raised like 50 preflop with 10 as BB) chips off me. I thought I had a tell on him, as I was going to bet on the flop, and as I did he reached for his chips showing me he would call, so I just checked. He checked the turn, and as I reached for my chips, it looked like he was reaching for his cards to fold, so I bet, and he just called...

Anyway, it eventually got down to 4 people. I was getting blinded to death as I was getting nothing for cards. So I had about 140 left with the blinds at 5 10, got dealt 55. I went all in with it, got called by 10 6 offsuit or something. Flop comes A 10 3 or something. Turn blank. River 5 and I jump and scream and scream. Eventually, it gets down to three, and I have 300 chips versus two big stacks with about 1000 chips each. blinds raise to 10 20. One guy is pretty hammered though, and starts bluffing like crazy, to a point where I have no clue if he has a good hand or not. I just suck at reading these people I guess. Anyway, I get no cards so just keep folding. The blinds raise to 25 50, and I eventually put in my 50 blind with like 85 chips left. The other two are in, flop is rags to me so I fold. They keep betting and calling each other until the river, when eventually the drunk one goes all in. The other calls, has a pair while the drunk has nothing. So, I get into second place with one blind left to go... Its about 2215 in chips to my 85. I go all in about three times in a row. The first two we split, the last I lost.

So , to sum up, I got second and won $115, while only spending 20 to get in(no re-buys). The other dude won $345, having spent $100(4 re-buys).

So thanks for all the advice, it definitely helped me win here.

I really want to come in first though,for my pride and for the fact that most of the time they play winner take all. It seems like there is no particular action or thing I do which makes me feel like I am the favorite here.

Now, considering the players I play with suck, wouldn't know a pot odd if it bit them in the @$$, chase everything, almost always call(when its six players almost every flop has four or five people in it) with virtually no pre-flop raising. Some don't even realize that they have the best hand once the cards are turned over.

Lemme ask everyone. What actions or decisions do you make that make you the favorite over people like this.

Is it being able to read players to know if your middle pair or tpnk is good when the others bet, is it to wait for the nuts or near nuts and to have them pay you off. Is it just playing tighter when they are loose. I ask this because I just feel like despite all I know on poker, having read book after book and doing great online and playing all the time, I still don't feel like a favorite... Yet I do against decent players...

[smoore]

Sounds like you're getting it. 'grats. The reason you can't read that drunk is because he's not even sure what kind of hand he has. You're starting to understand that the bluff isn't going to be a very big weapon here and that stealing blinds is almost worthless in this situation. Hell, you felt that you had to push when you had 55 and 14BB. I never feel short with 14BB in a "decent player" tournament but in a wild and wooly one it's definitely short stacked.

so... no bluffing, don't bother to steal the unimportant blinds. You can't just sit there and peddle the nuts, but your TPNK is going to be good here more often than when you're against decent opposition. Use the check-raise to insult the manhood of people that it will work on, bet strong against the calling stations. In these games I'm usually not even afraid of getting all-in with some mid two pair. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong oh well.

[RiverDood]

Nice showing. Finishing in the money in a "luck fest" is a legitimate accomplishment on its own. Keep playing that sort of game and you'll get plenty of firsts, too.

Sounds like you did something very shrewd that other posters maybe referenced only obliquely. You gave the fish enough time to make mistakes. Big, ugly mistakes that opened the way for you to move ahead. The two chip leaders banging heads with an all-in near the end fits that definition perfectly.

It's so tempting in these sorts of tournaments to try to outplay weaker opponents on every hand. But then any sane/sober player is at the mercy of suckouts, misreads, etc. that can clobber you too early in the tournament, before you got a chance to grind them down.

Patience at these sorts of events is a great virtue. Sometimes you'll beat them. Often they'll lose to you -- if you just give them enough time to find the way.