Which 2 starting cards cost you the most $?

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
Hmmm..., my VP$IP for QTo is <2%. I will attempt a steal from the Button or sb, and I'm not even sure that's good in a raked game. Maybe if the game's right I could call in LP under certain conditions...

I have been feeling like I'm playing a little too tight. VP$IP = 15.5%. I'm not sure exactly where I should loosen up though. Big cards in LP? Suited Connectors/pairs earlier in looser/passive games? Right now, I think I'll stay at 15.5% though until I work some other potential problems out.


[/ QUOTE ]

QTo is a limp in the CO or on the button for me, plus SB completion. For some reason that's translated to my high VPIP, but it's going down as the sample size grows.

15.5 isn't too bad -- it may be a teensy bit tight, but you could consider playing broadway cards in late position like KJo and ATo that you might be mucking. JTs and QJs are EP limps in a loose-passive game, etc.


And Mr. Pug says:

[ QUOTE ]
I'll tell you what. When I started off, I was playing suited connectors way too much and my 3 most losing hands were T9s, 98s, and 87s. That caused me to change my play of hands like that significantly (like not playing them in EP or MP so much). That was after about 10k hands. I'm glad I didn't wait until I had a few hundred thousand hands to use that information to improve my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was the exact same way because I was coming from the live games at Commerce, The Bike, and Hustler, where every pot was unraised and 7-8 players. The relative TAGginess of Party tables (heh) caused me to eventually make the adjustment and only play suited connectors on loose passive multiway tables and in late position after several limpers.

I looked at each instance of getting suited connectors and found most of my winning hands were coming from pairing up, not making straights/flushes. And that went for hands like Axs and JTs and QJs too. Those all won hands for their high card strength, not their suitedness. In my first 10k hands, actually, of all the times I won with A6s-A2s, only one of them was because I made a flush.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]

72o
83o
32o

[/ QUOTE ]

No, because just about no one here would put unforced money into the pot with them pre-flop. I'm pretty sure most posters play a couple hands in a way that's -EV long term.

Looking at the Pokerroom stats over the entire poker popuation those aren't even the biggest losers. A2o and 72s are.

[Lurshy]

I am not drawing any conclusions except reading facts, and suspecting where leaks might be.

The fact is K10o currently is my least profitable hand. AA is my most profitable hand.

Now I can examine my AA play for leaks and find places where I may have been able to play even more profitably (and that would be a good thing to do), or I can focus on my least profitable hands and see if I am doing anything obviously silly in my play.

I am choosing to look bottom up. No matter how you play, there will always be a least profitable hand. I just suggest examining the associated play for leaks. When other hands surface examine them too.

My VPIP is probably too high on the K10 especially in middle position. Maybe the guy playing the 44 shouldn't play it out of position. There was someone else that is losing money with suited connectors (or 1 gappers) that needs to be more closely examined.

I just think its interesting thats all.

Yes the numbers can be misleading. You may find that you are playing optimally, but people sucked out where they were behind you etc. etc. But you won't find that unless you look...

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you change how you are playing 44 or the other hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, at least not just because they have been losers. 44 and 98s have been losers for me. 66, 55, T9s, and 87s have been winners. That those are my biggest losers is an artifact of the sample size and the fact that they are high variance hands to begin with.

(Same story short handed. ATs and JJ are my biggest losers. A3s and TT are my biggest and 4th biggest winners.)

[vegasvegas]

My biggest losing hands (20K sample size):
JTo
98o
K7s

Biggest losers in the last 10K hands:
JTo
T9s
98o

At least K7s is gone (but still negative). Funny, I actually made money with K7o. Winner with all pocket pairs except 55 and 66 (just slightly negative).

[Octopus]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how KTo is overrated. Who actually thinks it's any good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost everyone I have ever played against, it seems. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Lurshy]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
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72o
83o
32o


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No, because just about no one here would put unforced money into the pot with them pre-flop. I'm pretty sure most posters play a couple hands in a way that's -EV long term.


[/ QUOTE ]

A hand may get on the list even if you never put a dime in PF voluntarily. I have evidently done some stupid things post flop with my number 3 Q8o and it has a 0% VPIP. Yes this could be a sample size issue, but I bet if i look closely at those hands, I pounded a TPBK or middle pair out of position way to far.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how KTo is overrated. Who actually thinks it's any good?

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost everyone I have ever played against, it seems. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

No kidding. Once I was scolded by a dealer at The Hustler (who later got promoted to floorperson) for folding KTo preflop -- and it was to a raise! The flop came KKT and when the hand was over I amusedly remarked that I had KT preflop. The table chatter came to a screeching halt.

"You folded king-ten??!!! You folded? King-ten?!"

And this was the dealer. I told her I never play that hand against a raise (didn't have the heart to tell her that I don't always limp with it either). She said I was trying to play 20-40 holdem at a 3/6 table. Then the other players agreed with her, and they started shaking their heads at that stupid kid in seat 3 who is so weak he folds King-ten before the flop. I think I won 2 racks in 2 hours that day.

[kevyk]

I was once advised to play KTo under the gun by a dealer at the Taj. She told me that one time in five I would hit top pair and win the hand.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I was once advised to play KTo under the gun by a dealer at the Taj. She told me that one time in five I would hit top pair and win the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

She must've been dealing from a Pinochle deck.