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  #1  
Old 04-01-2005, 05:01 AM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Default 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

It's 3 handed at a final table of a $109 MTT. 1st is $7300, 2nd is $4600, 3rd is $3000. Two other opponents are loose, BB is also highly aggressive, and also capable of making some crazy calls, like he has done previously during the final table - although he sure seems like a thinking player, who has some idea about my image and what I'm doing.

They are not easy opponents for short handed play, i.e, they aren't tight, and blinds are high. Up until now I have picked my spots, showed generally good hands, and wasn't involved too much. The 3-handed had started not long ago.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t4000 (3 handed) converter

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

<font color="#C00000">Hero (t92820)</font>
<font color="#C00000">BB (t150760)</font>
Button (t153920)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t6400) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t8000</font>, BB calls t8000.

Turn: (t22400) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t80620 (All-In)</font>

Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2005, 05:31 AM
ThrillFactor ThrillFactor is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

[ QUOTE ]
BB is also highly aggressive...

[/ QUOTE ]

I check-push the turn.


[ QUOTE ]
and also capable of making some crazy calls

[/ QUOTE ]

given that, he's just as likely to call your turn push as he is to call your turn check-push in my line. Might as well gain some more chips the times he folds.


Of course, if he checks behind, you either make your hand or escape still in pretty good shape.
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2005, 08:11 AM
Mammux Mammux is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

I think the play is good if you do not feel that you have a significant skill advantage over the other players.

-Magnus
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2005, 08:39 AM
Sluss Sluss is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

I like this play. Pretty sure the guy will be folding to this. Probably was calling to take it off you on the turn and then when you push it's all over for him.

Do you think he would have pushed if you checked? Obviously he would have bet something. And you could have picked up a few more chips. If he calls it is only with two pair, maybe even 73 and you have a lot of outs to become the monster chip leader and roll over these two guys.

However, at this stage of the tournament I think you are just trying to take down some pots, build yourself up slowly and maybe catch someone on a big hand. Just picking up pots is more important than anything else when threehanded IMHO.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2005, 09:03 AM
Jason Strasser Jason Strasser is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

PM,

Hope you made it home ok from Vienna, you were tanked in that hotel lobby the last night.

This play is weird for me because I'm not sure what hand or even what type of hand you are trying to represent. If your opponent is thinking, that means he'll try to put you on a hand, and if he has something respectable like a pair or two pair, he's more likely to look you up despite your large bet amounts because your play confuses him.

It's not a horrible situation, because you do have more outs than god, but obviously you'd rather not get called here. I also find it very awkward when you are bluffin and pick up a draw. I tend to slow down on the turn in spots like these because of the sheer deceptiveness of your hand. You have plenty of money where you might be able to check-call the turn and still have folding equity on river.

Thoughts here are mumbo-jumbo but so is my fried brain right now.

-Jason
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2005, 09:59 AM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

Hey Jason, yes I'm home from Vienna (with a little stop in Monte-Carlo on the way... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]). Yes, I remember that night you're talking about, I was drinking a lot in the lobby with some company when you were back with your final table friend. Good times.

Anyway, about the hand. I know it is a bit weird, that's why I posted it here, and it's interesting to see people's replies.

First, BB was tough in that he made big calls previously, AND was pushing very hard in several situations. Actually, in one spot he called with Q6o when I pushed against him with AJs from the SB PF. And he had a rather healthy stack. It was a crazy call, and he thought about it for a while, I know. He probably put me on any-two, and thought Q high is good. He was wrong, but Obviously he hit a 6, to make it that far. But since that hand I didn't make any moves against him, or pretty much anybody, and it was when we were 7-9 handed.

So I think he might suspect I'm pushing here with a strong made hand, hoping for a weak call. And thus he actually might fold now some marginal pairs. Another thing, is that I am almost positive that if I check he bets, and if I C/R then, pretty good chances he then calls with a marginal hand he might fold if I push to begin with. These are some of my thoughts. I'm not 100% sure it makes complete sense, but that's pretty much what I was thinking. And a smaller than all-in here looked a awkward to me, especially if he calls (I don't see him folding too many times) and I don't improve on the river.

In reality he thought about it for a LONG time (maybe 30 seconds) and then called with J9o. I had 24398 outs (i'm 3:2 dog on the turn, which is huge), but didn't improve and busted third. It was a risky move in that sense, but I'm not unhappy with the fact I forced him into a decision for almost all his chips, and a good card on the river makes me a dominant big stack, plus I do think he folds this J a nice % of the time. He surely almost did.

I felt that the turn card and the way my opponent plays, turned this into a "going to the felt" hand, and I prefered pushing on other options, to increase my FE. Against other opponents, I think I play it differently.
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2005, 10:18 AM
MrX MrX is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

My biggest problem with the hand is, if the Big BLind was 3000 as it appears, you had just over a 30bb stack and there is plenty of room to play.

I probably would have my standard preflop raise here, but I don't think limping was horrid.

I think you over bet the flop, wouldn't a 2/3 or pot sized bet have done the same thing there and also kept the pot size more managable. If you bet 5000 on the flop and he calls are you still pushing the turn?

Overall, i don't have a major problem with how you played the hand I just think you had such a healthy (in terms of BB's) stack at the start of the hand it was a shame to lose it all like that.
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  #8  
Old 04-01-2005, 10:26 AM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

[ QUOTE ]
I think the play is good if you do not feel that you have a significant skill advantage over the other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I don't think anyone has a significant skill advantage in this situation (3-handed, not deep stacks, reasonable players) but I might be wrong. You might have some advantage, but certainly not significant, that's if your opponents don't fold too much, and don't play like idiots, which they didn't.

Anyway, how would you play it if you DID have a significant skill advantage? There is not one answer for this, obviously, since "skill advantage" is dependent on the situation. I also guess that with a certain kind of a significant skill advantage pushing here might be great - that's if you assume with high confidence that BB will call with a weaker draw, but will fold some made hands. Now that is a significant skill advantage. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #9  
Old 04-01-2005, 10:33 AM
PrayingMantis PrayingMantis is offline
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Default Re: 3 handed at $109 final table, overbetting

BB is 4000 and going up soon. At this point I have about 23xBB. I accept the point about the flop bet. I was mixing it up a little here.

[ QUOTE ]
I just think you had such a healthy (in terms of BB's) stack at the start of the hand it was a shame to lose it all like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it is a shame to lose all your stack if you are making a +EV move (I'm talking generally here, not just this particular hand). Anyway, these stacks are not huge in any sense, and with these blinds you can't sit and wait for hands, IMHO.
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