QQ under the gun

JKetzer · #1 02-11-2005, 01:44 AM

I don't have the history so I'm working from memory here as much as I can. NL tourneys aren't my strong suit but I'm getting a little better - by which I mean I won a couple of SnG's. It's a $5 Poker Room tourney and 37 players remain out of ~250; top 20 get paid.

I've been at this table for about fifteen hands and I've been doing extremely well - my stack grew from 12k to 20k or so just on people folding to my steals and continuation bets postflop. I've not met real resistance from anyone at this point. The most interesting character at this table is the player directly across from me, who is also doing very well and seems to play an extremely solid game. He and I haven't been in any significant hands together yet. Blinds at this point are something like 200/400.

I get QQ under the gun and open-raise to 2000 (the best real hand I've seen in a while). A chorus of folding ensues. Then the TAG in MP, who has me slightly covered, goes all-in.

How many times does he have AA/KK here, and how many times is he just testing me to see if I can be out-bullied? I'm very happy if he took AK/AQ/etc. and did that, extremely unhappy if he did that with aces or kings and the happiest little fish in the sea if he decided to try to bluff me with something weaker than the queens.

I hoped he was just trying to put me to the test and called; he turned over aces, they held up, and I busted out.

Is there even any way to assign any probability to this without knowing the individual player better? I've been thinking about this hand a lot; I'm going to earn a money finish if it kills me. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] I just don't know if there's much that I can do differently (besides, of course, don't go all-in against a big stack preflop when the blinds aren't forcing the issue yet).

LuckyEights8 · #2 02-11-2005, 01:52 AM

2000? Too large of a raise.

Only AA or KK comes over that.

Potowame · #3 02-11-2005, 01:57 AM

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Is there even any way to assign any probability to this without knowing the individual player better? I've been thinking about this hand a lot; I'm going to earn a money finish if it kills me. I just don't know if there's much that I can do differently (besides, of course, don't go all-in against a big stack preflop when the blinds aren't forcing the issue yet).

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If he is soild, the range of hands that he would push to a UTG Raise is very slim. I would not be happy to see AK here For my stack ,when as you said, I was stealing blinds and have no problems accumulating chips. If the blinds where at 1500/2000 this is a easy call.

Fold is my vote.

adanthar · #4 02-11-2005, 02:21 AM

First off, raise to 1200, not 2K.

Second - and this is far more important than the hand - there's no such thing as a TAG in a $5 tournament. If you think he's a TAG your reading skills are way off.

He immediately proves me correct by reraising a 2K bet from a 20K stack all in. Gosh, why are the 'idiot' signs going off? But of course you turbofold.

SoCalPat · #5 02-11-2005, 03:57 AM

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2000? Too large of a raise.

Only AA or KK comes over that.

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I don't think it's too large of a raise, and exactly for the reason you've laid out -- only AA or KK comes over that.
If your QQ is no good, you want to give yourself a chance to find out before the flop.

What happens if the flop comes all rags? You're probably in an even worse situation than you would be had you only raised 1,200 and your opponent flat-called in hopes of extracting more after the flop. To me, it's worth the extra 800 PF to find out just that.

Given the stack size of your opponent, this is an easy muck. I'm not keen on tangling with big stacks at this stage of the tournament when I'm all but a lock to get into the money -- moreso when I still have chips I can do damage with.

Rushmore · #6 02-11-2005, 09:43 AM

I always like to open raise for an extra bb with QQ and JJ so I'll have a better idea of the strength of any reraising hand.

That said, you have a laundry list of reasons to fold. You have the player pegged as solid. Is he going to push here with JJ?

You made the big open-raise and got reraised. That should tell you something.

Lastly, even if you're up against AK, you still don't want this at this stage.

This is an easy fold against the player you describe in the situation you describe.

betgo · #7 02-11-2005, 12:13 PM

What is the purpose of raising 5xBB UTG with QQ? An UTG raise is intimidating to begin with. Is your object to pick up the blinds?

I don't like your opponent's push for 9x pot with AA. I would raise about pot sized or a little more. I wouldn't raise real small either, so it looks like a big pair. Why scare you away when he has AA.

You both seem to play like a big hand should mean a big bet. Your opponent does seem tight aggressive, but not a great player.

You raised UTG 5xBB and your opponent made a massive overbet push. What could he have. It may be a bad play with AA, but it's a worse play with anything besides AA, KK, or AK. Given your read on your opponent, was it likely he would make this push with any but those 3 hands? Why did you call?

Sam T. · #8 02-11-2005, 12:35 PM

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Second - and this is far more important than the hand - there's no such thing as a TAG in a $5 tournament.

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Ouch. That really hurts... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

JKetzer · #9 02-11-2005, 04:42 PM

I still think the raise to 2k was okay for purposes of protecting the hand, etc. But I fear it was terribly fishy of me to make the call behind. It appears that this is an accurate assessment.

While I was playing, part of the reason I called was that I didn't want to be seen as someone who could be readily out-raised, giving up (normally) excellent hands. I think I vastly exaggerated this effect mentally in the interests of letting myself make the call. Stupid - I know better than that.

Summary: If you're going to raise to protect a hand, then you have to also fold when it's raised 10x back at you. Weak call.

Live and learn.

JKetzer · #10 02-11-2005, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Second - and this is far more important than the hand - there's no such thing as a TAG in a $5 tournament. If you think he's a TAG your reading skills are way off.

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All I knew about him was that he had only been in a few hands and he had been betting and raising all of them. Maybe not a "real" TAG, but he certainly was doing more than the rest of the rocks. I don't know if I can read anybody worth anything or not - which probably means that I can't - but I try.