a hand i disliked-QQ BB

[jskills]

Aside form not leading out on the flop, which I believe is a must given the texture of the board ...

You spent 2 bets to find out your flopped set of queens were beaten by a monotone flop with a gut shot coming on the turn. Don't beat yourself up too much.

I think you could fold on the river instead of overcalling, but it's hard to fault the call.

Does it really matter where the flop bet comes from? I fell like you still need to go through with your flop CR. Too many people will bet the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] here. Granted you may already be behind to flush or straight but we need to define your position here.

[QTip]

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Since you can't assume that you'll be able to manipulate the pot by raising a specific bettor, and because the board is crazy and you'll get action, and because you have a big hand, just bet.

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This seems to contradict the "When the pot gets very large" section of
SSHE...care to elaborate your reason to "jam it anyway"?

-ZEN

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With a bettor and 3 callers, this can be jammed for value even if someone turns over the nut flush.

Example:

Board: Qd Td 9d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 32.5236 % 32.52% 00.00% { QcQh }
Hand 2: 61.5385 % 61.54% 00.00% { Ad6d }
Hand 3: 05.8030 % 05.80% 00.00% { KdKh }
Hand 4: 00.0000 % 00.00% 00.00% { Jh8h }
Hand 5: 00.1350 % 00.13% 00.00% { KsTs }

Just betting out the flop obviously changes the entire dynamic of this hand a lot. I would just bet out initially on the flop intending to 3 bet myself if I get a chance, but probably just calling a 3 bet. I would come out firing on the turn after that, or checkraise if my relative position was good if I got 3 bet on the flop.

Damn that is an ugly turn and river. I can't make myself hit the fold button though -- I'm not that good. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img] For closing the action is a big pot it might not be a HUGE mistake though.

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I check, intending to raise CO's bet

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I think this was your mistake. You don't really have a reason to expect the CO to bet. You 3-bet preflop, and this is a scary board. It would also be terrible to give a free card here. You gotta bet this.

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Yes.

It is very important to realize that the combination of factors:

1. You three-bet pre-flop and didn't get capped.
2. The board is about as scary with draws as possible.

Means that it's very, very difficult to assume that a bet is coming from any one specific place.

Since you can't assume that you'll be able to manipulate the pot by raising a specific bettor, and because the board is crazy and you'll get action, and because you have a big hand, just bet.

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Totally. someone will be megastoked to get a free card here. I think letting them have that chance, however small, is a mistake is a big pot like this one.

[thejameser]

i absolutely hated my flop play here. i have no idea why i did not proceed with a checkraise for value. i have a ton of boat outs with two shots to hit them. this was the worst hand i had played in a while IMO and i felt i needed to be flamed for it. i don't know who said it but i agree: when i failed to go with my normal plan by leading the flop it seemed to cause the rest of the hand to spiral into a nasty mess. for those of you that are results oriented, MP had Kh10h and only by the miracle of the crappiness of 2/4 players, MHIG. and the Steelers don't suck, they just sucked on last Monday night.

[ZenMusician]

Ultra-suede is a miracle, this was just bad timing!

-ZEN

[ErrantNight]

your preflop/flop/turn line makes NO sense, you realize that right?

you can't do ANYTHING about draws on this flop.

NOTHING. remove from your head any "oh, i'll protect from..." because the only "hand" you might "protect" against is an AKo with no diamonds that simply isn't out there.

you must bet/raise this flop until the cows come home. your plan is to charge charge charge until someone tells you "oops, you're toast!" so that when, say, the turn comes around and the board gets scary, and suddenly capt. calls-a-lot wakes up with a raise, you know to stop charging and pair the river.

on the river you have not idea where you stand. so you're stuck overcalling in a huge pot just in case. as opposed to betting because you might be ahead. or folding because you know you're cooked.

ugly.

[ErrantNight]

c/r'ing this flop sucks.

[ErrantNight]

explain how jamming this pot on the flop contradicts that section.


(hint: it doesn't)