You make the call

[J.A.Sucker]

An interesting situation came up the other night in the 80-160 game at Bay 101. This hand was between myself (SB) and BB. I got caught semibluffing on the turn and 3 bet by BB, so there was lots of money in the pot. The dealer failed to pull the bets in, though.

Here's the situation on the end. I had AK and missed my nut flush on the end against a fairly tricky opponent. I checked. He bet. I was pondering a call briefly, and had 8 chips in my hand that I was shuffling. I cut the chips down to shuffle (away from my stack), and shuffled them. My opponent tabled his hand and it beat mine. I said that I never called, which was true. The dealer claimed that I made a forward motion. I said no way. There is a line on the table that marks the betting area. I was in the 7 seat, so there is about 1 foot between where my hands were and the line. The 3 bets from the turn were stacked up on the other side of the line, and not pulled into the center of the pot, as I said.

Anyway, I wasn't about to take the dealer's opinion as fact, since it's 160 bucks at stake. We called the floor, and she tried to explain it, but was saying that I put my bet up to the line. B.S. I said. They said that they would check the camera. I said fine and that I would go along with their decision on that. About 10 minutes later, the floor and the asst. cardroom manager came by and said that they were going to make it a call, because there was a "slight forward motion", though I wasn't near the line. I was kind of hot, but accepted the decision.

Comments on the whole thing appreciated.

[captswifty]

Did the chips go in front of your cards? If they did, then it's pretty fair to rule it a call.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
We called the floor, and she tried to explain it, but was saying that I put my bet up to the line. B.S. I said. They said that they would check the camera. I said fine and that I would go along with their decision on that.

[/ QUOTE ].

At this point I would have shown what I did do, without exageration in my favor. The floor might not have even bothered with the camera, which often has an unreliable angle or view. Given they went to camera, it may have confirmed that the dealer wasn't completely wrong, i.e., manybe your chips went forward slightly - so they ruled her way.

That said, lesson here is to never shuffle chips or fidget with your hands while in a hand. Breaking the stack may look like forward motion, and moving your hands may look like a check (when you want to bet).

~ Rick

[Lawrence Ng]

If they look at the camera and notice you have a motion to put your chips forward, thus leaning and extending your arm then I believe they have a right to state that it is a call.

Not that I am saying or accusing you of it, but doing something like this can be considered angle shooting as often times you may be enticing your opponent to look for a read based on the player percieve's your actions to be.

Lawrence

[J.A.Sucker]

I did attempt to do exactly what you were saying, but the dealer was yelling and I wasn't getting through to the floor. 'Cest la vie.

The only thing that really irritates me is that they don't have the forward motion rule in the first place: that's why they have the line. The money was never anywhere near the line, and I feel like they were making up rules as they went. People check all the time with tons of chips in their hands and it never gets called. Often, the checks with chips in hand take place over the line in a back-handed motion, though some guys will even cut out the chips and check with their chips felt side down.

[J.A.Sucker]

If your opponent does something before he should, it's not shooting an angle. In this instance, I wasn't trying to induce him to turn over his hand. I really was just thinking. However, he has a responsibility to his own money to not be a dumbass.

[J.A.Sucker]

No - it was all to the side. My cards were in front of my pyramid, with a chip on top of them. The shuffling took place on the right side.

[daryn]

you should have stuck to your guns. if what they have is indeed a BETTING LINE, you should have saved $160.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
you should have stuck to your guns. if what they have is indeed a BETTING LINE, you should have saved $160.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. What the hell is the point of a betting line if you can call without putting your chips past the line?

[The Goober]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. What the hell is the point of a betting line if you can call without putting your chips past the line?

[/ QUOTE ]

To help avoid dealer back strain. That's why on the ends of the table there's so much room behind the line, but on the sides is closer to the rail. I believe the line is related to OSHA regulations.