String bet question

MaxPower · #1 12-02-2005, 04:20 PM

I was playing 15/30 at the Wynn last weekend and I raised AQ pre-flop and was cold called by a crappy player.

The flop came Queen high. I bet and he called.

On the turn, I bet again. He took six red chips off his stack, reached out onto the table (over the line on the table where one would normally call) and placed the chips on the table without taking his hand off of the chips, then said, "Raise" and went back to his stack to get more chips.

Is this a string raise?

Everyone at the table including the dealer inisisted that it wasn't . Now here is the funny part, after inisisting that it was a string-raise I said, "reraise".

SossMan · #2 12-02-2005, 04:24 PM

not a string raise. it's similar to chess, if your hands are still in contact w/ the chips, you can make a verbal indication of what you want to do and it's fine.

Ulysses · #3 12-02-2005, 04:30 PM

Soss: I don't think this one is quite that clear. We need Randy to weigh in.

MaxPower · #4 12-02-2005, 04:58 PM

Doesn't that go against the whole reason for having a string bet rule?

The guy puts his chips on the table and all he has to do is release his fingers in order to complete the bet. Now he looks up and sees that I am not happy that he is calling and he decides to raise. If he sees me licking my lips can he now take his bet back and fold.

I have the same problem with people who take chips off of their stack and then use them to check.

In AC the rule is that if you move your chips in front of your cards, it is a bet. I don't know if this applies to calls, but it should.

Randy_Refeld · #5 12-02-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Soss: I don't think this one is quite that clear. We need Randy to weigh in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would really want to be there in person to rule on this.

If the player brought some chips froward, held them out there for a bit and then said raise I would say this is a string raise. If the player came forward and immediately stated raise I would allow the raise. The player cannot give an indication that he wants to call and then raise based on the reaction to his call.

The significance of the line would also make a difference in the decision. I would prefer that a line always be used an an ergonomics line (that is have no effect on the rules, but if something the dealers needs to reach is short of the lien they should tell the player to push it forward). I have never worked in a room with a betting line, but if this is a betting line the decision is much less clear cut (which is why I hate the idea of a betting line, it introduces an argumetn of was te line crossed and how much was in the players ahnd when they crossed the line).

#6 12-02-2005, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Now here is the funny part, after inisisting that it was a string-raise I said, "reraise".

[/ QUOTE ]

So... if you were glad he raised you, why did you complain about it?

MaxPower · #7 12-02-2005, 05:35 PM

I don't know if the line on the table means anything. Basically he took the chips, reached his hand out beyond the line and placed them on the table without taking his hand off. Then he said raise and went back to get 6 more chips. I don't think he did it in reaction to anything I did. It was clear that his original intention was to call, but he changed his mind - too late in my opinion (Even though I had him out-kicked and really wanted him to raise)

It is possible that he had the chips hovering slightly above the surface of the table, but if it were a football game and I challenged the call the video replay would be inconclusive.

MaxPower · #8 12-02-2005, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now here is the funny part, after inisisting that it was a string-raise I said, "reraise".

[/ QUOTE ]

So... if you were glad he raised you, why did you complain about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't complaining, I just wanted to know the rule.

andyfox · #9 12-02-2005, 05:49 PM

You should act on what you believe happened. That is, if he intended to call, and then changed his mind, you should call a string raise. If you feel he intended to raise, you should allow it.

The guys who are angling by watching their opponent's reaction usually have enough chips in their hand to raise and then decide to either call or raise depending on their read of their opponent. I can't recall a guy putting out only enough chips to call and then saying raise as an angle before going back for the additional chips.

andyfox · #10 12-02-2005, 05:51 PM

That's not correct, at least where I play. The chips go forward onto the table as if to call, it's a call whether you release them or not.