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  #21  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:31 PM
Marnixvdb Marnixvdb is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
Explain to me why I should listen to someone who starts off the thread with "who were"...?

[/ QUOTE ]

you shouldnt if you don't want to. Excuse me for my grammar errors, im not a native english speaker.
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  #22  
Old 12-13-2005, 06:54 PM
Marnixvdb Marnixvdb is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
I really don't want to watch an hour long video so summarize please so I can rip apart your claims. Thank You.

Melch

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't want to watch, fine. Im not claiming anything, just that the video made me think about the whole event again and that it cast doubt on what I thought I knew what happened on 9/11.

I have no clear judgement on the issue and would rather not believe the claims in the video. I also have serious doubt about the methods they use, and find some of the issues they adress bogus. Still I've always had a hard time understanding how the WTC towers 1,2 & especially 7 collapsed in they way the did (fast and on their own footprint). Cause and effect don't seem to correspond very well. This is one of the issues adressed in the video.

Anyway, I will not summarize the claims of the video as Cumulonimbus refered me to a thread that had discussion on most of them, i'll read that first.

Marnix
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  #23  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

Tom, I too believe that the plane over Pennsylvania was shot down. When the plane abruptly changed course over Cleveland (it was already known by this time that it had been hijacked) two fighters were scrambled from the airforce base in Dayton, Ohio. They would've caught up with this plane precisely where the plane went down.
Also, there is reason to believe that the order had already been given. It's not clear if Bush had given the order, but it's fairly certain that Cheney had.
Moreover, Rumsfeld, in a press conference mentioned, "when the plane over Pennsylvania was shot down" then, after realizing what he just said, corrected himself. There's no reason to believe that the plane couldn't have been shot down, it has been a long standing policy to do such, just never been enforced before. If you recall a few years ago the situation with the golfer in a private plane that was flying around aimlessly over the midwest and ultimately crashed (they had lost pressure and everyone on board fell unconscious) the order had already been given to shoot it down, they were just waiting until it the debris would fall into a less populated area before shooting it down. However, the plane began to plummet before they had the opportunity they wanted to shoot it down. I think the administration just does not want to admit that they are responsible for the incident over Pennsylvania. Of course, it is entirely reasonable that they did not shoot it down, I just feel that, after three planes had been used as missles, they didn't want to take any chances and brought it down. By the way, it is possible to take a plane down without it breaking up into a million pieces.
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  #24  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:23 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Explain to me why I should listen to someone who starts off the thread with "who were"...?

[/ QUOTE ]

you shouldnt if you don't want to. Excuse me for my grammar errors, im not a native english speaker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry then. But this topic has been covered here and I'd rather not watch an hour long rehash.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:30 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
Still I've always had a hard time understanding how the WTC towers 1,2 & especially 7 collapsed in they way the did (fast and on their own footprint).

[/ QUOTE ]
This is another of the conspiracy theorists' claims that I haven't understood. If it's so illogical that the buildings would collapse this way, why wouldn't the gov't rig the building to collaps on surrounding buildings and cause more damage? Obviously they aren't concerned with lives or $'s of damage since they're doing it anyway. So if they're so smart that they can rig this entire scheme to go off without a hitch, why finish it in some illogical fashion and blow their credibility? Is it totally outside the realm of possibility that what happened is naturally what would happen if a plane crashed into such a building?

Shouldn't a computer program be able to show what happened in virtual reality and be able to repeat this and adjust for the variables involved?
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2005, 07:58 PM
jokerthief jokerthief is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

Osama didn't do this. It was the Illuminati but the Illuminati isn't really the bad guy. The bad guys are the Jesuits. The Illuminati are really trying free everyone from Jesuit rule but they have to do things like 911 to apease the Jesuits and trick them into thinking that they are a puppet group of the Jesuits. The Jesuits aren't really the top of the pyramid though. They are controlled by reptilian arachnids who live in the center of the earth. The earth, you see, is really hollow and the master race of reptillian arachnids reign from in there. Tolken was a clandestine Jesuit agent and Shelob and Orcs were meant to represent the reptillian arachnids. Also, did you notice that Darth Maul was reptilian looking and the robot leader in Revenge of the Sith looked kinda like a spider. Oh yeah, that is spooky! I think George Lucas is really a reptillian amphibian (the arachnids are too important to come to the surface world, amphibians are lesser beings).

There is so much more to this. PM me and I'll get more into it.
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  #27  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:07 PM
Arnfinn Madsen Arnfinn Madsen is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Explain to me why I should listen to someone who starts off the thread with "who were"...?

[/ QUOTE ]

you shouldnt if you don't want to. Excuse me for my grammar errors, im not a native english speaker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry then. But this topic has been covered here and I'd rather not watch an hour long rehash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some parts were interesting, I recommend to watch it.
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  #28  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:18 PM
Marnixvdb Marnixvdb is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Still I've always had a hard time understanding how the WTC towers 1,2 & especially 7 collapsed in they way the did (fast and on their own footprint).

[/ QUOTE ]
This is another of the conspiracy theorists' claims that I haven't understood. If it's so illogical that the buildings would collapse this way, why wouldn't the gov't rig the building to collaps on surrounding buildings and cause more damage? Obviously they aren't concerned with lives or $'s of damage since they're doing it anyway. So if they're so smart that they can rig this entire scheme to go off without a hitch, why finish it in some illogical fashion and blow their credibility? Is it totally outside the realm of possibility that what happened is naturally what would happen if a plane crashed into such a building?

Shouldn't a computer program be able to show what happened in virtual reality and be able to repeat this and adjust for the variables involved?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is very complex to simulate what would happen exactly, but basic physics says it is not very likely that a building like the WTC tower collapses in 10seconds total after structural failure. Then again, neither can I say it is 'totally outside of the realm of possibility' that what happened could have been caused by the plane crashes.

On buildings 1 & 2 that is. Which leaves the odd collapse of 7. If the fire caused it to collapse, that would be a huge enigeering failure.
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  #29  
Old 12-13-2005, 08:27 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
basic physics says it is not very likely that a building like the WTC tower collapses in 10seconds total after structural failure.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mind you, I haven't taken a physics class, but I would think that several hundred tons of building collapsing and gaining momentum wouldn't take all that long. Why would it take longer after total structural failure if it's caused by an airplane as opposed to demolition?
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  #30  
Old 12-13-2005, 09:45 PM
Marnixvdb Marnixvdb is offline
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Default Re: who were behind 9/11?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
basic physics says it is not very likely that a building like the WTC tower collapses in 10seconds total after structural failure.

[/ QUOTE ]
Mind you, I haven't taken a physics class, but I would think that several hundred tons of building collapsing and gaining momentum wouldn't take all that long. Why would it take longer after total structural failure if it's caused by an airplane as opposed to demolition?

[/ QUOTE ]

The towers collapsed in 10 seconds, which corresponds with the time an object would need to fall down from the height of the building. If a building collapses because of structural failure on the upper or intermediate floors, first the upper part would fall on floor where the support fails. Then the support of a lower floor would fail, the building falls further down, etc. This process gain momentum quickly, but because of the resistance (or "friction") of the underlying structure, it would take more than the freefall time of an object falling down from the same altitude. Maybe if things lined up perfectly the difference would be hard to notice, I don't know enough about it to make an educated guess.

But like I said previously, it's the collapse of building 7 that really puzzles me.
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