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Old 12-16-2005, 12:39 PM
sam h sam h is offline
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Default Telling political fact

Here is an interesting political fact I ran across when reading about this Bush-McCain mess. If this legislation had passed without Bush's blessing and he had vetoed it, this would have been his first veto ever since being elected president.

So who was the last president to last even one term, let alone the two that Bush is heading for, without exercizing veto powers? John Quincy Adams.

Having your party control both houses helps, of course, although that has happened on many occasions and the GOP didn't really control the Senate for a significant part of Bush's first term. We seem to be in an era of unprecedented party discipline and cooperation between the White House and the Republican congress. Maybe this is partly to explain why so many of the GOP's actions have strayed so far from traditional conservative values under this administration. There's very little room for anything more than the symbolic protest of denouncing Alaskan bridges on the house floor.
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:04 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: Telling political fact

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There's very little room for anything more than the symbolic protest of denouncing Alaskan bridges on the house floor.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought I read somewhere that the bridge project was being dropped?
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:09 PM
sam h sam h is offline
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Default Re: Telling political fact

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I thought I read somewhere that the bridge project was being dropped?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I heard that too, but that is not the point.
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Old 12-16-2005, 01:13 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: Telling political fact

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought I read somewhere that the bridge project was being dropped?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I heard that too, but that is not the point.

[/ QUOTE ]
It shows it was more than symbolic. It worked. Like Colburn said, there is a palpable grumble among conservatives that are fed up with the waste.
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Old 12-16-2005, 02:14 PM
sam h sam h is offline
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Default Re: Telling political fact

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It shows it was more than symbolic. It worked. Like Colburn said, there is a palpable grumble among conservatives that are fed up with the waste.

[/ QUOTE ]

After looking into it, I'm not so sure it worked after all. But anyway, as I said before, this is not the point. Of course many people in congress will exert control over the details of various policies, either on the floor or more likely through committee. That is how the system works. But a bridge here or there represents a small drop in the bucket of public spending. To actually make a real difference, you need to change the overall orientation of policy. And my point is that doing so becomes much more difficult when party discipline and cross-branch coordination is tighter than ever before in American history. I'm talking about the big picture here, not some minor example of jockeying on the senate floor.
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:20 PM
vulturesrow vulturesrow is offline
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Default Re: Telling political fact

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It shows it was more than symbolic. It worked. Like Colburn said, there is a palpable grumble among conservatives that are fed up with the waste.

[/ QUOTE ]

After looking into it, I'm not so sure it worked after all. But anyway, as I said before, this is not the point. Of course many people in congress will exert control over the details of various policies, either on the floor or more likely through committee. That is how the system works. But a bridge here or there represents a small drop in the bucket of public spending. To actually make a real difference, you need to change the overall orientation of policy. And my point is that doing so becomes much more difficult when party discipline and cross-branch coordination is tighter than ever before in American history. I'm talking about the big picture here, not some minor example of jockeying on the senate floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think its a minor point. Coburn leading the charge against the highway bill marked a real deviation from the status quo that you correctly pointed out exists right now. I cant remember the name of the Representative that was one of the leaders in the House of fighting the highway bill but he was put under a lot of pressure by Hastert and company and he stuck to his guns. That represents a real difference. Remember, a journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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Old 12-16-2005, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Telling political fact

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's very little room for anything more than the symbolic protest of denouncing Alaskan bridges on the house floor.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought I read somewhere that the bridge project was being dropped?

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't the bridge project get dropped but Alaska keeps the pork $$$ anyway?
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Old 12-16-2005, 04:00 PM
sam h sam h is offline
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Default Re: Telling political fact

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Remember, a journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. I guess time will tell in terms of how far that initiative goes. I am personally very pessimistic that things will get better in this respect without some kind of external shock to the system that radically changes the political landscape.
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Old 12-16-2005, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Telling political fact

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Didn't the bridge project get dropped but Alaska keeps the pork $$$ anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, Alaska still gets the money, instead of New Orleans, as Coburn wanted. They just don't have to spend it on those bridges.
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  #10  
Old 12-16-2005, 05:09 PM
DVaut1 DVaut1 is offline
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Default Re: Telling political fact

[ QUOTE ]
I cant remember the name of the Representative that was one of the leaders in the House of fighting the highway bill but he was put under a lot of pressure by Hastert and company and he stuck to his guns.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.slate.com/id/2091787

You might be thinking of Rep. Nick Smith, a Republican congressman who retired in 2005; his son (Brad) was running to replace him in the '04 Republican primaries in August.

Smith opposed the White House backed Medicare bill, so the GOP leadership allegedly offered Smith $100k in promised campaign funds to his son's campaign, in return for Smith's vote on the Medicare bill -- and apparently threatened Smith that his son would 'never reach Congress' and would be 'dead meat in the election' if Smith voted against the Medicare bill (although Smith admits that it was neither Speaker Hastert nor former Majority Leader DeLay who offered him the bribe).

Smith dug in his heels, rejected the offer, and voted against the Medicare bill -- and his son lost in the primaries. But this might be what you're referring to, VR.
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