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  #91  
Old 12-10-2005, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Iran

theweatherman,

I am having trouble following your line in comparing the US to Iran in the following SATish sense:

1) Sending/Funding/Organizing suicide bombers to kill as many innocent people as possible is to Iranian terrorism - as - ________________ to kill as many innocent people as possible is to American terrorism.

Also, in what way would you compare the 38 or 39 country coalition's initiative to remove Saddam Hussein's unpleasant and threatening dictatorship and install a democratically elected coalition government - to - Iran's intiative to "wipe Israel off the map"?
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  #92  
Old 12-10-2005, 10:20 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: Iran

[ QUOTE ]
The cold war conflicts mostly had a US vs. USSR undertone. The US had nukes, so did the USSR. Hence there is a behind teh seens power struggle. I'm sure you know all this and so I'm not going to explain it further.

[/ QUOTE ]
I figured the Cold War would be your fallback plan. But we weren't fighting the U.S.S.R. directly. I doubt that the Russians would be willing to nuclearly (real word?) defend the N.Koreans or Vietnamese. But take both Gulf Wars, Bosnian war, and any of the handful of other conflicts and none of them went nuclear even though one side had nukes and the other did not.

[ QUOTE ]
There has been no international pressure placed agianst the US to abandon any nuclear programs, even though we are the only nation in the history of the planet earth who has used a nuclear weapon on forgien soil.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who would apply this pressure internationally? There's certainly been domestic pressure to abandon such programs, but they're futile. So basically what pressure there's been has been to reduce the number of nukes.
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  #93  
Old 12-10-2005, 10:27 PM
theweatherman theweatherman is offline
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Default Re: Iran

[ QUOTE ]
theweatherman,

I am having trouble following your line in comparing the US to Iran in the following SATish sense:

1) Sending/Funding/Organizing suicide bombers to kill as many innocent people as possible is to Iranian terrorism - as - ________________ to kill as many innocent people as possible is to American terrorism.

Also, in what way would you compare the 38 or 39 country coalition's initiative to remove Saddam Hussein's unpleasant and threatening dictatorship and install a democratically elected coalition government - to - Iran's intiative to "wipe Israel off the map"?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct in stating the similarities are not absolute. The Us has sponsored anti-state terrorism. In some cases they did not control the results of this sponsorship. If the terrorists blew themselves up it would of been out of the US's hands. Becasue of this I make little difference in blindly supporting/ creating a terrorist faction, and actively supporting a suicide bombing terrorist faction.

First off Saddam's government was democratically elected. The legitimacy of the voter's intent is the only questionable part. But this is tangental.

I have not seen any remarks of how the state of Israel is to be wipedoff the map. There were allusions made to expelling the Jews, I have not heard or read anything that makes this claim. I would certainly want to read it if someone can show me. This said I see little difference between destroying Iraq's government and replacing it with a completely different one and destroying the Israeli governement and replacing it with a different one.

Don't forget that Iran would have a coalition of several Arab nations in this endevor, so coalitions are inaccurate methods of compare.

As a side note Iraq's "democratically elected government" is looking more like a theocracy all the time. If the US helps set up a government whos laws are second to those of Islam, why would Iran's probablly similar mission in the Israeli terroitories be seen any differently?
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  #94  
Old 12-10-2005, 10:34 PM
theweatherman theweatherman is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 82
Default Re: Iran

[ QUOTE ]
I figured the Cold War would be your fallback plan. But we weren't fighting the U.S.S.R. directly. I doubt that the Russians would be willing to nuclearly (real word?) defend the N.Koreans or Vietnamese. But take both Gulf Wars, Bosnian war, and any of the handful of other conflicts and none of them went nuclear even though one side had nukes and the other did not.

[/ QUOTE ]

The USSR's willingness to defend the NK or Vietnamese is a sketchy point. They most certainly told the US "hands off Cuba or we will fight" following the bay of pigs. But their position in NK and Vietnam is ambigous.

Gulf war uno and the conflicts in bosnia did not call for nuclear weapons and thusly they were not used. (Personally I dont think any conflict in the middle east would call for nukes because but that is another issue.) Obviously in every conflict that we can use nukes we do not have to. We may have gotten away with it in NK but by Vietnam i doubt it. The cold war was too old and thelines were too clearly drawn.

The UN calls for states to abandon their nuclear programs all the time, they could of done this for us. Of course as permanent members of the Security council it would most certainly fail. But even the symbolic attempt would be something IMO.
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  #95  
Old 12-10-2005, 10:37 PM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Whitewater, WI
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Default Re: Iran

[ QUOTE ]
First off Saddam's government was democratically elected. The legitimacy of the voter's intent is the only questionable part.

[/ QUOTE ]
If pulling the "other" lever results in your rapid death, that is not a democracy. Are you really expecting to be taking seriously? You're certainly doing a good job of making yourself irrelevant.

[ QUOTE ]
I have not seen any remarks of how the state of Israel is to be wipedoff the map.

[/ QUOTE ]
See it now?

[ QUOTE ]
This said I see little difference between destroying Iraq's government and replacing it with a completely different one and destroying the Israeli governement and replacing it with a different one.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's because you don't want to see a difference. The Iranian president didn't just want to change governments in Israel. He wants Israel to cease to exist and the Jewish people to not live there. That's a HUGE difference.
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