How do you play this turn?

checkmate36 · #1 12-03-2005, 09:53 AM

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

All my opponents are rated fish after a small sample. The table was very loose and players were calling down with all sorts of holdings. Raising the turn with bottom pair etc.

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

I don't think I should have raised out of the BB. I think AJ and I hit it. VS 5 opponents my hand is probably best. Any thoughts on pre-flop?

Flop: (6.40 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, Button calls, Hero ??

This is where I get messed up. With 5 outs I think I can see the river but I may be drawing dead to a straight. I discounted my outs to 4 just to be conservative and the pot seemed big enough when it was back to me after I already put one bet in. Should I take one off or fold figuring someone has a straight. These guys will raise with anything and I may be best. (slim chance but you need to account for it) Thanks for any thoughts.

#2 12-03-2005, 09:58 AM

gunch:

PF is good, I would never consider raising A 10 off out of the BB with so many callers.

Turn I think you have to give someone credit for a better hand than yours. My plan: curse, call the raise, fold the river UI, unless you have a read that villain is a complete donk. Don't know if this line is even close to correct, though. I think you could fold the turn and not lose any sleep, but in a pot this big, I call

sean c · #3 12-03-2005, 10:02 AM

Hi checkmate i wouldn't have folded the turn.

@bsolute_luck · #4 12-03-2005, 10:05 AM

yeah fold the turn.

checkmate36 · #5 12-03-2005, 10:09 AM

Here is the rest of the hand.

Turn: (5.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (13.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Button folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

xGoreDudex · #6 12-03-2005, 10:16 AM

hey check,
The way this hand was played I'm definatley calling the turn raise.
I'm going to suggest something that maybe a better player can expound upon, however, (i know you asked about your turn play specfically), but.. on the flop I don't think betting out really protects your hand here as you giving the field over 7:1 odds on a call. Personally with this many oppenets I'd check, and hope to get a check-raise in here and attempt to fold a few oppenets.

I'll reiterate that I am defiantley no expert on the subject of protecting hands, but I feel you could have faced a lighter field with that flop line.

Anyway, to answer your question I'd call the turn.

Gl.
G.

string4 · #7 12-03-2005, 10:27 AM

(in the dark, critique welcome)

I wouldn't raise this PF against so many in pot. When raised on the turn, and the raise is cold called by the button, I'm guessing I am way behind, perhaps down to two outs, I fold.

checkmate36 · #8 12-03-2005, 10:41 AM

I bet out on the flop because they all love to call. I may as well build a big pot should my hand hold up was my thinking. But your right, it doesn't really protect my hand like a c/r would. This table was kind of passive so no telling it would get bet.

#9 12-03-2005, 11:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet out on the flop because they all love to call. I may as well build a big pot should my hand hold up was my thinking. But your right, it doesn't really protect my hand like a c/r would. This table was kind of passive so no telling it would get bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 0,05/0,10 c/r don't really work like it should do so forget about a c/r. Just bet. Your line is good and I would play it the same. Good card on the river.

bozlax · #10 12-03-2005, 11:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
All my opponents are rated fish after a small sample. The table was very loose and players were calling down with all sorts of holdings. Raising the turn with bottom pair etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you really need to ask us how to play this turn? Seriously? Or did you just throw this "read" in to justify your call?

Preflop: don't raise ATo out of the BB, unless it folded to SB and he completed.

Flop: a c/r would protect your hand better, here, but you have no idea where a bet will come from if one comes at all, so you should probably just bet it out and hope that one of the Products of the Shallow End of the Gene Pool raises his 95o thinking he's got a double-gutter. otoh, giving a free card, here, probably wouldn't be the worst thing on Earth, so I think it's a coin flip, and in those cases I usually opt for the line that keeps control of the hand. Bet is g00t.

Turn: nobody played back at you on the flop, of course you're going to bet. When it's raised, MP1 has either matched his queen, or he's made his straight, or he's trying to find his own ass and accidentally bumped his mouse into the raise button when he had to bring his extra hand into play. The point being, you're probably behind, now, but you've got 5 outs to improve to a likely winner, and you're getting 10:1...oh, and betting out and folding to a raise is generally bad for the ol' table image. Call is g00t.

River: hey, you caught one of your outs! Way to play! Too bad you can't be happy about it, as it brings a whole new load of possible holdings into play that beat you, plus you're still behind to a number of holdings that might have raised you on the turn (AQ, for instance). The one thing I doubt is that MP1 raised the turn to try and get a free showdown, so I'm going to crawl out on my limb here and suggest that you should either be check/calling or check/raising the river, probably the former. I doubt a worse hand is going to call your bet, but a better hand will raise you (yeah, yeah, fish love to call, blah, blah), so betting only puts you in a position to win the least and lose the most.